Pond Boss Forums STOCKING A NEW POND Types of fish to choose Ordered my fish for saturday

I just ordered the basics I guess
Darnit I cant remember exactly the list is at home

He wants to stock a bunch of fatheads
150 BG
? HBG
? RES
25 CC
I wasnt going to go with the cc but thought maybe they would help clean up the bottom a little better? Once I get home I will fill in the blanks
BG are around 3" cc are 9"

something dont look right...

Why HBG instead of more BG?

UH OH what dont look right?
I asked for the HBG in hopes to get some big BG going in my pond

125 BG
100 HBG
100 RES
25 cc

GS X BG don't grow as big as BG, IMHO.

Initial growth rates may be better due to heterosis and some agressive individuals. Also the bigger mouth may allow them to exploit some food items that YOY bluegill can't eat, but on the whole, BG grow bigger.

Most states that differentiate between HBG and BG show larger records for the BG.

It just makes sense that if you cross fish with an 9 inch max and an 11 inch max, that you don't end up with progeny that have a 12 inch max.

Trust the BG....Be the BG...

So skip the HBG and make them all BG?
Do the HBG make better fighters? I thought I read that somewhere
I guess I have been worried over my WM and DW problems that I havent been paying attention to the stocking plans. What I want are some big ole mean BG to get the kids all fired up.
The fish guy said I could have what ever I wanted he just suggested this combo

HBG and BG are both excellent battlers. I've caught hundreds of HBG and tens of thousands of BG (seriously) and don't feel that one stands way above the other.

If you leave out the HBG, you can always add them later. I personally wouldn't spend the extra money on a hybrid unless I really had a personal love for the fish, but don't let us stop you if you're fired up about the hybrids. I'm sure if you're a Pond Boss guy, you'll do well regardless.

Are you adding LMB in the early spring? That will make a lot of difference in the answer. If you are not adding LMB, then I would not put in BG. When I said something dont look right, I was meaning that you need more predator than CC with BG.

How big is the pond again? Burger has a good point. You need to make sure that you have some control over panfish fecundity.

Yes LMB in the spring or fall of next year was recommended to me, I wanted them now but fish guy didnt recommend it. The pond if full pool should be 1/3 acre
What I really want are those georgia giants where can I get those

Trials Guy, Who did you order fish from?

H20 Had a change of plans I think I will go with raccon valley after all, I talked to the guy today, he is not ready yet for stocking but his fish for the money are bigger 3-5 on the bg

Dang H20 do you work the night shift? I just noticed when you posted

If you will have a strong predator then BG and RES. If no strong predator then HBG and RES. There are good options for either based on pond size and amount of management. Look at this link for HBG ponds.

http://msucares.com/pubs/publications/p1893.htm

Great read ewest thanks, but now I have questions.

First I plan going with 5 lb FH
125 BG 3-5"
75 HBG 3-5"
50 RES 3-5"
25 CC 8-12"
then stock LMB in the spring

I would like for all fish to reach nice sizes not all trophy but I would like some large fish for the species.

Can my bass reach the 4-5 lb side if everyone plays well together in the pond with the Hybrids or should I just forgo the Hybrids and stock just BG and RES

The hybrids will compete with the LMB for small fish...very piscivorous.

If you really want large bass as your primary goal I'd leave them out for now.

Do you consider 4-5 lb large? Not trying to be a smart butt just trying to get a grip on whats what.

Is 5 lbs fhm enough this other guys was selling me 10lbs

What I really want is great fishing, cold beer and a back rub every night but I would settle with the great fishing for the kids.

I would like to have a couple of lunkers in there if possible. BG and LMB not a bunch but at least I could say big bertha hangs out over yonder by the "OL Crap condo"

I could get a couple lunkers transplanted I have buddies that are offering drop off a couple when ever they can get some, Good idea ? bad Idea?

TG, the normally recommended stocking rate for FHM is 5 lbs. per acre. They are extremely prolific. If you want a bunch of them, just add water.

About a year ago I asked Lusk about adding some 4 or 5 lb bass to a pond. He said that was a good way to screw up a pond. It gets everything out of balance. Since Bob said it, I would recommend that you grow your own. That said, I just might add a couple of giant, or even big bass, if I could get them. I would call it improving the genetics. But then, I have only limited willpower, keep bad company, am easily led astray, call my errors experiments, and often exercise really, really poor judgement. Hey man, it's your hole in the ground. Have fun with it. You can always start over. I have lots of times.

Just remember that for every # each bass gains, it takes 10# of bluegill. You cant have more than 1 or 2 4-5 lb. bass in 1/3 acre pond. Most all (read ewests MSU bold print ) hatcheries says dont stock HBG with any other sunfish species. You have 2 options for a good pond. Stock BG, some bass to keep them in check(bass wont grow large) and some cc. option 2..HBG and CC. That may be your best choice and is what I would do in 1/2 acre or less if starting from scratch. CC will be fun for the little one, as will any size BG or HBG. You will need to feed regularly.

I wonder though with just HBG they wont produce enough forage right? Man that 1-10 ratio could be tough for 6 5 lb lmb. I keep changing my mind on which way to go and it still seems cloudy to me.

Trialsguy,

There are lots of options to consider. I've been experimenting for almost a year now with a HBG(Georgia Giants) and HSB combo in a small 1/4 acre pond designed for hooking kids and kids at heart on fishing, especially fly fishing. Too early for conclusions, but thus far this has been a very positive experiment. This combo along with a small forage minnow seems to fit your above desires very well.

Lots of disagreement on this forum about HBG...some claims of growth far exceeding BG, some say not. I don't know yet, but believe it is certainly possible that a hybrid fish can exceed the growth of either or both parents. Not that cows are anything like fish, but I can grow a "hybrid" calf much larger than either of its pure strain parents.

In my case, both the HBG and the HSB have shown excellent growth in the small 1/4 acre pond. The HBG growth rates exceed those for regular BG in my state, thus far. The HSB have grown as well in this small pond as HSB stocked in a 4 acre open water pond.

A lot people say if you stock HBG, you will be over run with GSF or at least a GSF like progeny. I haven't seen any indications of that as yet, either. The HSB eliminate virtually all HBG offspring. However, if you stocked a different combo, e.g. HBG with BG and/or LMB, CC, etc. different results may be provided. I set traps for small fish all the time and in the HBG pond have only caught two small HBG offspring for an entire spawning season. Of course, the HSB do not reproduce at all hence you have, except for the weight gains, a fairly static balanced pond.

I agree with Bruce that HBG and BG are both about equally fun to catch. IMO, HBG are much more prone to eat small minnow imitation baits and BG much more prone to insect type baits.

However, I have seen one big difference in raising HBG vs BG...the HBG consistently all grow in size, whereas in my experience, only a very few BG reach the large sizes. I stocked 200 HBG last December, and now have about 200 8 to 9 inch fish. That is a big difference, in my mind, with just regular BG.

Trialsguy, I've only got less than a year under my belt with this combo, so I'm hesitant to recommend it to anyone...but I'm very happy I tried the combo, am extremely pleased with the results, and look forward to what happens as time marches forward. Two, three years down the road will lead to some conclusions on my part for the HBG/HSB combo in a small East Texas pond.

For a running history/documentation of this experiment see the following link:

http://www.meadowlarkponds.com/TGG.htm

If it were my pond , which it is not, and with your goals I would try the following.

FHs and RES and HBG with a few CC. HBG will reproduce in low #s and RES will also but in much lower #s than BG. So you will have some continuing forage. My guess is that RES and HBG are not likely to cross but if they do the offspring will be much like HBG offspring. The HBG and CC are for catching , eating and replacing. Then in year 2 add 2 female LMB about 2 lbs. each or a few (5) 10 in. HSB. Between the FH , RES , HBG you should have enough forage for the CC and 2 LMB. Then you would put and take fishery with the CC and HBG and manage the RES and FH to be sure you have forage. Supp. feeding for CC and HBG would help in this a lot.

Another option ,like BM says, is BG ,FH ,RES and LMB. Here you would manage the BG/LMB relationship. You would be catching small LMB and some BG to remove with the idea of large BG and RES and small crowed LMB.

Another option would be an all male BG pond with some FHs and supp. feeding.

I like the first option for a kids pond because IMO it is easier to catch HBG , RES and CC than it is BG , RES and LMB. Plus with the first option you may catch one of those 2 female LMB or a HSB.

My 2 cents on a kids pond. This is your pond so do it your way and enjoy.

Will the HBG and the BG keep each others offspring somewhat in check?

Meadowlark have you had anymore observations on the HSB and mortallity rate with high water temps. with the larger fish.

I wonder if the HSB will survive in my pond?

Can a person order those georgia giants through the mail?

The fish people said they ship fish to japan and they make it.

BG and HBG will eat quite a few HBG offspring and because there are limited #s of them it could help hold down HBG. But that is not a problem. The problem is holding down the BG offspring and HBG and BG can't do that enough to make up for the BG reproductive rate. I would not stock BG and HBG together - to many negatives.

There is a lot we don't know about GG (indeed we know very little). As they are a southern fish , like with CNBG or Fla. LMB, I would not put them in a pond north of the Tenn. north state line extended unless you want to take that risk in addition to not knowing about them. If you are in the boot-heel it might be ok. Someone here from the north with GG may have some info. Fish from your climatic area are a better bet to reach their genetic potential.

I would think HSB would be ok in your pond especially with aeration.

You might think about SMB as there are some good sources in your area. They don't reproduce like LMB and might be a good fit if your pond temps don't get to high. You could use FH , HBG , RES and SMB and add some craws.

Even SMB are probably best acquired from a supplier located in a similar climate to yours. I would not be suprised if SMB from Minnesota are a little different from those bred for several generations in Kentucky for example.

Just to add another experiment to the fray I have nothing in my pond but HBG, crappie, and bass. In my 1/2 acre pond I originally stocked 1000 HBG and 100 crappie. I admit this was before I knew the potential dangers of crappie in a small pond. This recommendation was made by the hatchery I bought from. The idea was that the HBG would not reproduce much and the crappie would eat whatever reproduction there was while small. This approach is basically put and take. Two years later I added 6 LMB about 10 inches long because I was seeing too many crappies. I do regularly trap several hundred crappies each year which is easy and seems to be enough to control the population. My HBG are growing quite well for a northern pond and I have caught offspring. Not many but a few. I have also caught Crappie up to 12 inches. Not many but a few. My bass are about 16 inches. I have seen 2 inch bass offspring. The original stocking was in the fall of 2002 so I'm just going on 4 years. My HBG are about 1.2 pounds right now. I know that's not big by southern standards but it's very rare to see one that big around here. If I had to do it again I think I'd not stock the crappie. Out of 200 HBG that I've cleaned to eat I've yet to see a female. For a put and take approach I'd just stock HBG and a few bass. By the way, some people scoff at "put and take". It implies easy to manage and not enough of a challenge. It is easier to manage from the standpoint that you don't need to fret about keeping everything balanced. Since you aren't really trying to establish a balanced ecosystem you just put in however many fish you want to catch some day (that's why I put 1000 HBG in a small pond). I was catching edible sized fish by fall 2004. Barring any catastrophe I'm looking forward to 4 or 5 more years before I may have to start over. And each year the average size just gets bigger. I can now catch 1 pound fish all day when they are biting. I have the utmost respect for those who try and/or succeed in building the balanced ecosystem but I just don't have the time and my 1/2 acre pond would never support the high number of catchable fish I want. With this approach I have essentially fabricated my own successful year class of fish with hopes of eliminating other year classes. The path to establishing a balanced pond is difficult and varies widely from pond to pond. That's why all the differing opinions. Put and take will work in any pond that will support fish. One does however need to be prepared for the day when you may have to kill the whole thing off and start over. I'll see if that time ever comes. So just call me the guy who took the easy way out.