Pond Boss Forums STOCKING A NEW POND Types of fish to choose stocking plan

After reading some of the posts on the subject of SMB/YP/BG mix I am unsure how to proceed with fall stocking of my new 2/3 acre pond.
My goals are to have a somewhat balanced fish population - one where I harvest as needed to maintain balance. I do not plan to feed or aerate.
I put in 100 BG and 50 RES along with 7 lbs. of FHM in early June. Some of the BG were transferred from adjoining pond and were up to 8" so I assume I have had a spawn althoug I have not seen the YOY.

Then in July I added 20+ YP from 4" to 8".
I had been thinking I would go for a YP/SMB pond with BG as the primary forage. After rereading many of the posts on the subject I am concerned the SMB may not control the BG. And perhaps I will not do so well with the YP either. I have caught and released several BG and a couple of YP and RES. All look healthy and one BG was at 9.5" a real healthy guy.

The pond is only 8' deep most spots with an area that goes to 9'.

I am wondering if I would be better off with LMB than SMB? Looking for BG/YP/ bass balance if possible. I don't mine harvesting slot size bass - and hope to harvest good sized YP for the table. I was only leaning towards SMB as the top predator because they may taste better than LMB. But I should have no problem eating the slot LMB - and ultimately want a "balance" that will work - without working me too hard. I also will gladly eat some BG but doubt if taking the larger ones will help.

I have what I feel is a lot of cover. 25% of the pond in weeds already and an area of 2'-3' depth with lots of weeds, logs, rocks, and various man made objects.

So - SMB or LMB? Looking for sustainability and great tasting fish. Want the YP to do well enough to provide food as well.

Here's something to consider - start with SMB and see how well it works. You can add the LMB later if you think they are needed, and they should slowly replace the SMB.

This approach would be less expensive (if buying the bass) and MUCH more doable than the opposite approach (LMB first).

I agree with Theo. Try the SMB first and harvest (trap) small bgill (3"-4") for the first several years. Abundance of weeds will affect how effectively the SMB can prey on small perch and BG. Try to keep weeds to a minumum - only 10%-20% coverage of pond.

After several years (4-5) assess the numbers and sizes of perch and BG. If numbers seem high and thes small bgill and or perch are thin then consider stocking LMB to help SMB thin overabundant smaller (3"-5") panfish. If you stock LMB, I suggest always removing all LMB over 13" or 14". This will result in larger perch and bgill and take some competitory pressure off the SMB by the LMB.

I agree with both Theo and Bill.I would try the SMB. While I like LMB (and raise quite a few in my spare time)I am not fond of them spawning in ponds under an acre.

The SMB I don't think will control the BG or YP. With some harvesting and trapping/seining together you + the fish can. The YP will help put a dent in the BG as it gets cooler. I would consider a couple of HSB soon ( fall) or if needed 1 female LMB ( 2 lbs. ) when the time for help comes.

Thanks guys. I will try the SMB and put in some HSB to supplement them to control the BG and YP. I had the suggestion previously Eric of using female LMB as a final balancing item if needed. I like that idea. And like Theo says, if it does not work out (the smallies don't make it) I can always try something else later.

I will go ahead now with the SMB and HSB. Thinking 50 of each, 2-3". Or should I add a few larger SMB or HSB to head off a BG explosion?

Bill - thanks so much I know you have the experience with the perch. My pond is not full yet, so edge weeds are just starting, except for the "shallows" area <10% of the shoreline - it has logs, rocks and other structure and more weeds. I hope to control the weeds without chemicals. My first inclination now after being here on PB is to try one or more grass carp. Should I put one in now to head off the weeds? The pond will be 8' deep when full but is only 5 to 5.5' now - meaning the shallow area that will be where most of the weeds are is not covered with water yet.

Bill when you say no more than 20% weeds are you talking 20% of the shore line or 20% of the pond surface. Even if I had weeds on 100% of the shoreline I don't think they would come into the pond too far because of the depth of the water - and then I would guess it would still be far less than 10% of the surface area.

AATW wrote "I will go ahead now with the SMB and HSB. Thinking 50 of each, 2-3". Or should I add a few larger SMB or HSB to head off a BG explosion?"

It's my understanding & experience that SMB don't grow as quickly as LMB.

So 2-3" SMB may only control BG frye and small BG juveniles for a few years.

I think putting in a few larger SMB is a good idea, maybe along with stocking the 2-3" SMBs.

But also keep in mind that the 2-3" SMB will be subject to some predation if you have larger SMB already in the pond.

I would make a few calls to see what is available as they can at times be hard to find. It would be good if you could find a few larger fish. More SMB than HSB. 25 6in. SMB and 10 8 in. HSB sounds good. Then wait and asses what is going on. Then you could find or catch a few ( 6 1lb SMB and 4 1lb. HSB) to add if needed , one mth. after the others. But see what is available and work from there.

AAtW - My reference to 10%-20% coverage of rooted vegetation was for the entire pond surface. Your pond in NE OH will likely develop water clarities of 2.5'-3'. When that happens, the rooted vegetation and FA growth increases and it almost always causes increased water clarities of 4'-6'. This then allow plants to grow even deeper, thus perpetuating more and deeper weed growth. Your pond depth of only 8 ft can easily get submerged weeds growing into the 6' to 8' depths. At that point, and depending on the species of rooted vegetation, it or several species of rooted, submerged plants can easily cover more than 20% of teh pond surface or bottom area.

Adding grass carp into a new pond will usually prevent establishment of most rooted submerged vegetation. BUT:
1. Filamentous algae persists when grass carp have eaten rooted leafy vegetation, and FA is usually a very problematic type of plant then to deal with.

2. Early stocking of grass carp usually prevent easy establishment of any beneficial bottom plants such as waterlilies, various good pondweeds, or eel grass. Submerged vegetation has lots of benefits in a pond such as fish cover - refuge areas, extra production of lots of invertebrate forage food organisms for all sizes of fish, competition against filamentous algae, etc.

3. Grass carp without leafy vegetation have been known to cause sediment derived turbidity which can be good or bad based on the degree of turbidity and goals for the pond or fishery.

Thanks Bill and Eric. I am looking for a source for SMB that I can use.

Bill - in my small pond - .2 acre - the vegetation only goes out 2 feet. I thought it was because it is fairly steep - goes to 9' deep in the middle. I always thought of that water as "fairly clear" although I did not measure it. Now I am wondering if the weeds have been controlled by the muskrat. I think he cleared all the creeping primrose this year and I see occasional evidence he is working on the cattails.

But I am curiou. The small pond has been there for 25 years. I have been here for 22 of those years and I have never observed FA. Like I said - the water always seemed "fairly clear" and the weeds never got out past 2' from shore. If I were to hazard a guess I would guess the seschi disk number would have been in the 30" to 48" range most of those years. Could be wrong. If I get time I will get a real measurement.

Any guesses as to why I have not had any FA all those years?

No FA during history of small pond - very fortunate indeed. In another post you mention the small pond has brownish tinted water. This may cause lower pH of the water. Lower pH together with brown stain may also help inhibit certain types of FA growth.

If your rooted submerged vegetation only grows out to 2 ft deep then you have no need for grass carp.

This small pond with the brownish tinted water - more like tea than coffee - has a LOT of decideous trees near and hanging over - mostly black oak. I am guessing that over 25 years there is a lot of organic sediment in the bottom. And my guess is lower on the pH scale - probably why I have not had FA.

I would like to measure the pH - any advice on good inexpensive tool to measure pH? I have a thermometer . Is there an inexpensive way to measure DO? The dissolved gas testing instruments I found were all in the $200-$300 range.