Pond Boss Forums GENERAL QUESTIONS Muddy water My Muddy pond Update Got my Results!!!

I took a sample from a 1/4 acre pond and put it in a large jar. It appears after 2 days that there IS something settling in the bottom. Its not a whole lot, just coating the bottom and a little left still settling. Its very tiny particles that appear to be very faint in color, almost clear. They have the slightess tan color to them. It could even have a touch of green in it but mostly just a very faint tan color.

To my knowledge the pond only has bluegill and they might as well be overpopulated. Mostly 5" fish pale in color and thin.

There is no vegetation in the pond at all.

We haven't had runoff in a good while but cattle were present for a month or so. they have been away from the pond for 2 weeks now. Im not positive that they are the cause because there are other ponds around that are clear and have vegetation with my cattle also.

Colloidal clay is usually tan in color. The clay stays suspended due to it being very tiny. If it were going to clear, it should have done so in under 48 hours.

A cheap alum for testing can be purchased at any grocery store in the "spice" section under the un-assuming name of ALUM. (it is used to keep vegetables crisp when canned or pickled)

Has anyone tried Hay. I've been reading about this on different sites.

"""If the cause is the fine clay particles, then add organic material like hay. Tip: Break open square hay bales and place them in the water every 10 or 15 feet around the shore. Clay particles will settle as the hay decomposes."""

and another site
"""Muddy water can be cleared with the use of aluminum sulfate, but it is a risky proposition due to the possible precipitous pH shift. A safe and usually effective way of settling suspended clay is to apply hay at a rate of approximately 6 square bales per acre over the surface of the pond. Break the bales up and spread the hay as completely as possible."""



We have a ton of hay on the ranch. I wonder if anyone here has tried this. Might just be something to try.

One site said take a quart of the water, put in 1 tbsp of vinager and let sit for 24 hours. If it clears up then the hay method probably will work.

The best organic matter is Barley straw if you want to try the natural route. Some hay will not help with the suspension and can even deplete your oxygen as it decays. ANY pond can use alum safely as long as you use Hydrated lime at a rate of 50% of the alum used. Many on here have used the alum without the lime without a single fish dead. The big round bales of hay left intact and merely rolled into the pond can often work.

Main comparison is Alum works in 24 hours or less and Barley straw/hay works in 6 months to two years (if ever). Both are totally safe when used properly and both are equally deadly to the fish when not used properly.

I read the post about your experience with Alum. seems it works well but must be applied often or whenever there is a disturbance in the pond.

I wonder if draining the pond and cleaning it out would be of any benefit.

The problem is, the water in your pond is too soft. There's not enough mineral load to displace the fine clay, which is kept in suspension ionically.

If you drain the pond, you will lose what minerals you have accumulated from soil leaching and runoff. Refilling an empty pond with soft rain water will make things worse.

The best solution to clearing up a pond is to fill it or top it off with hard well water, if available. Otherwise, you will have to go the chemical route. Watch out for hydrated lime, it kills fish if not properly applied. Gypsum and alum are almost totally safe, ag lime is the safest of all, but takes a long time to clear up the water.

Chad, I think you may be misunderstanding the alum needing to be re-applied often. I have had to use it more often because I have not fixed the ORIGINAL problem. That problem is new clay being introduced into the pond because I do not have a good grass buffer and most of my watershed is an oak forest. If you resolve the issues of runoff clay and acidic water, alum (or hay) is a one time thing.

In my situation, I have areas of bare clay with no topsoil available to grow any plants on, so every time a large rain event occurs, hundreds of pounds of powdered clay are re-introduced to my pond which overwhelms my positve charged water.

I believe that im going to have the same trouble. The runoff into this pond travels through a small but deep draw that is full of trees. hence there is no grass under the trees whatsoever.

Im still on the learning curve definitly. Im sending a water sample to Todd Overton to analyze.

Hopefully by the middle of next week he'll have the results and will no the cost of my options, I haven't even got that far yet.

My goal is to have the pond in shape to drop in CNBG for growing in the spring.

Chad, if there is any way to add limestone rip-rap in the draw, that could help a great deal to eliminate the acid from the tannins. There should not be a problem with clay from the woods.

Rainman, I got some Alum from the grocery store. What is the mixing instructions. I want to give it a try while Im waiting on my test results.

thanks

Chad, if you read through this post, http://www.pondboss.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=124005#Post124005 it will give you all the instructions needed. If you have more?'s, you can email me or call. I'll be glad to share what I've learned about using alum.

Ok I got my results back on my water test, here is the numbers.

pH 7.1
Alkalinity 140 mg/liter
Total Hardness 150 mg/liter

the man said it was excellent and didn't think I should make any changes.

So, thats great, I just was worried about it not being clear as I wanted to grow CNBG in the pond. The clarity is about 12" today. I guess if that won't bother the bluegill I'll just go on with the process.

hey guys I just won't to double check, my water test results were fine but my clarity is 12". there is no vegetation in the pond at all really.

The water is a tan color not green. I guess I could have some clay particles causing the cloudiness, but being that the water test is good, should I do anything to the pond or just proceed?

The clay suspension has little to do with water quality. You could throw in some hay bales, Ag lime, or gypsum. This will add positively charged particles (Ions) for the negatively charged colloidal clay to be attracted to. Once enough particles adhere (floc), they will become heavy enough to fall out of the water column.

I believe lime and gypsum add a PLUS 2 charge and the hay will slowly add a Plus 1 charge.

Using alum (a Plus 3 charge) and HYDRATED lime will net you a Plus 5 charge and clear the water overnight. The other methods will take weeks, months, or not work at all.

With my goal of raising CNBG in this pond though, should I worry about the murky water. Im not sure what negative issues it could cause besides some pale colored fish maybe at worst...

First concern is poor and slow growth.

CNBG are sight feeders, and if they can't see...........well.

My BG are almost 4 now and I doubt any are over 7". My bass are 4 as well and are about 10". They are alive but not much else!

Catfish are are 4 as well and a few are pushing 8 lbs. CC have spawned now also because we caught some 8 inchers this year.

I checked my pond again and I have 12" visibility today.

I think I'll just try putting hay in for now. If I don't get any results in 4 months or so i'll go another route.

I have some old 1+ year old Bermuda round bales and some old hay grazer bales. I've read no more than 1000 pounds per acre of hay. Another site says no more than 500 pounds.

I know it depends on the water and the hay mostly but does anyone know how much I should throw in initially?

Im thinking about a 1/2 round bale (500 lbs) or whatever it takes to cover the bottom all the way around the bank.

If you have 12" visibility, clearing the pond is desirable, but not urgent. My pond has had ~2"-12" visibility since new (2-1/2 years)and my fish are quite healthy.

Yeah I don't think its really bad but could get just a little better.

Im gonna try the hay once I figure out how much and if it works fine, if not, im not totally screwed.

Chad,

Just roll the round bales into the water intact. They will decay slowly enough to not pose an O2 depletion concern. 2-3 bales per acre is what my local NRCS guy said. I'm going to try some over the winter.

I know this thread is old but here is a photo of the water. What do you think about it just by looks...

Chad,

Obviously the water is still turbid, but it doesn't look "bad" to me. Do you still have 12" visibility?

Twelve inches is not that bad. It is on the low end of ideal, but in my limited experience, fish sight feed fairly well with that much visibility.

Have you thought any more about gypsum or alum? Gypsum did wonders for our pond.

I put two round bales of old hay in back around November. I have seen no change in the water.

I'll probably just not worry about it to tell ya'll the truth. It has always looked like that and has no vegetation due to the visibility issues.

Yes I still have 12-15" visibility. It doesn't ever seem to change.

as stated above though the water test came out very good, and the person who tested it said it would be fine to go ahead and fertilize it if I every wanted to either inorganic or cottonseed meal etc.

Where in Texas are you, Chad? We had good results fertilizing with cottonseed meal. It gave us a consistent bloom without limiting visibility much. In fact, after the bloom went away, we got more visibility. I have no scientific proof, but my dad and I think the cottonseed meal helped our visibility in the long run.

It seems like a natural, safe fertilizer.