Pond Boss Forums MANAGING AN EXISTING POND Fertilization Testing water clarity for fertilization

Im sending of a water same to get tested as Im kicking around fertilizing a 4 acre pond. The pond is never crystal clear summer or winter like some small ponds I have but im not sure how fertile the water is in the summer time. Im supposed to check the clarity via a disk to see what I have.

Question is, am I doing an good to check the clarity now being that its February?

Also I drained a .4 acre pond into the 4 acre pond about 2 weeks ago. The water in the .4 acre was crystal clear. Should I worry about this throwing my water survey numbers off in the 4 acre pond that the water was pumped into?

Let things settle with the other pond and check in March. THis time of year it will be clear b/c not warm enough to grow phytoplankton. I suggest checking every two weeks in growing season to tweak with small amount of feritlizer to keep it in desired range. Good luck.

Greg, Im looking into organic fertilizer actually. I did a water sample on one of my smaller ponds and Todd O said put in 200lbs of cottonseed meal per acre I believe in March and then thats it. Do you have much evperience with organics vs inorganics?

Im not looking to do a hard core fertilization program this year, just something to get a moderate bloom going as this is the first time I've ever done this.

Not sure what the cost difference is between organic and inorganics but i'm gonna keep researching.

Is there a reason you want to use organics ? They have their on set of problems.

Like you stated in a post before I don't have to get a huge bloom going just a light to moderate bloom will help out a bunch. I was just thinking organics provided for a longer lasting bloom requiring less of my time to mess with numerous applications.

Inorganic is IMO easier to use and much more predictable in the results. Plus it does not fill the pond with organic residue. For a small pond there is not much difference in price.

I agree with Eric. Inorganic fertilizer has much more predictable results, and it is much easier to adjust when needed. There are Inorganic fertilizers on the market that are very user friendly and application is not difficult. You could put 6 pounds of inorganic fertilizer per acre and get as good or better results.

Problem i've been having lately is finding prices of inorganics. I have two fairly large feed/fertilizer stores that don't handle small quanities. they just have huge nurse tanks and say I need a big container for them to fill up. Clearly they don't want to work with me.

Todd overton sells a 10-61-0 water soluble and a 11-37-0 liquid. I just may have to end up getting it from him.

Guess I better see if I can get a price to get an estimate on fertilizing for the growing season.

Usually can get 50lb bags of 0-46-0 for about $8 and water soluble in 25 lb bags for $ 35 at the Co-op.

Eric you checked water soluble prices lately, is that a 10-52-4? Im buying abotu 15 tons this year. This is about my price. SEPM told me they will go to $60 retail this year for 25 lb bag.

Not in about 3 mths. SEPM likes to make money. I get generic Pro Sol from the factory in N. Ala via the Co-op. With energy prices down and fert demand down then prices should fall. I will check but don't think the price will have doubled since Oct.

It is actually down quite a bit from last summer price but still 1.5 times what I paid last Feb. I may have to try and get in with pro sol folks. No anybody there?

I will check with the Co-op.

Todd has pretty much talked me into Cottonseed meal. Might be a good bet in this part of the country as he has a lot of experience with it and it seems to work for his customers around here. 100 lbs per acre once in April and once in May.

I think I'll give it a try, document, and let everyone know how it goes.

Todd can you post on here cost and do you mean you do nothing after May. How does this maintatin a consistent is 18-24 inches? I know davasta does this as well. Jsut curious on how cost compare to water soluble feritlizer.

gonna cost me $200 for the two applications, thats part of what you asked atleast. And also being that i don't aerate I would stop fertilizing in the hot summer months either way I go.

Chad I see it differently. BUT I do not have knowledge of cottonseed meal. For a 4 acre pond I can get a good bloom with three applications of water soluble fertilizer at 4-8 lbs/acre in April and May. So this would be 72 lbs or lets just say 3 bags. My price would be $150. Ewest would be $105. This might carry a bloom through June. The cottonseed meal might do the same or it might just result in a thick bloom that would last until the hot summer months. I just do not see how it is controllable.
So two points if worried about bloom in summer how do you know it will not affect things then. If it does not carry the bloom through June then why not use water soluble that is more controlled and cheaper?

Also I do not get this “do not fertilize in summer” mentality of many pond owners. Limit fertilizer YES but not doing it is missing lots of potential productivity in the pond. We monitor with use of secchi disc so we can see what is happening. We fertilize not at all or with 2-4 lbs/acre instead of 4-8 lbs in the spring. Many clients do not need fertilization at all some need a little but if water needs it when too clear I say do it with caution and knowledge of what you are doing. If the pond has less than 24 inches of visibility as you or some midwest pond owners then correct DO NOT fertilize.

Chad this is not directed at you more of a theoretical discussion sorry if caught in the crossfire. Ewest you agree or disagree or better yet can you explain my point in a more eloquent manner.

Todd is in Mexico for a week so won't be able to reply. I'll try to get some time discuss examples later.

Clint

I would not use an organic fert on a first time pond fert program. To many things can go wrong. Especially with no aeration in a southern pond. I might use it after I had several years experience with fert a particular pond. See the thread below and the SARC info. Every pond is different and you have to know what you are doing with that pond. Control is a must. You have none with organic as noted. See this thread from the archives.

http://www.pondboss.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=96127#Post96127

http://www.pondboss.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=124946&fpart=1

Fertilization of Fish Ponds - SRAC



Organic fertilizers, such as cottonseed

meal, are used in combination

with inorganic fertilizers to

prepare larval fish ponds (see

SRAC publication 469). Organic

materials are generally not recommended

for fertilizing recreational

farm ponds, as excessive amounts

may lower dissolved oxygen to a

critical level, possibly killing fish.

These fertilizers also can promote

the growth of undesirable filamentous

algae (commonly known

as “pond moss” or “pond scum”).



Individual ponds respond differently

to identical fertilizer application

schedules. The recommendations

in Table 1 are suggested

rates only. The number and frequency

of applications necessary

to obtain a satisfactory bloom will

vary from pond to pond. I

I'm back from Mexico and trying to catch up. Here are my thoughts on this fertilizer issue, based on experience with inorganics and cottonseed meal as well:

I have no problem to recommend inorganic fertilizers in small ponds where a moderate or light bloom already exists and where there are no existing macrophytic vegetation issues, but this is a rare occurence in Chad's area. Plus, the use of inorganic fertilizers only in this area have led to serious filamentous algae problems for some of my clients in the past.

I have had better luck in small ponds in Chad's area with small applications of cottonseed meal, like 100 lbs per acre with max of 2 apps per spring, in conjunction with a feeding program. The blooms tend to be more consistent, more predictable, more zooplankton heavy, and less maintenance. The use of inorganics assumes that phosphorous and nitrogen are limiting plankton nutrients. The use of organics will provide the basics but also carbon and many other nutrients that I am not qualified to list.

Note that we do have programs using inorganics only, but only on larger bodies of water.

In my mind the goal here is to predictably grow plankton without high risk of depleting oxygen. A good plankton bloom can represent significant "organic" biomass in itself, with a potential to both produce and consume oxygen, and with a potential to deplete oxygen as well.

Specific uses of specific quantities of organics like cottonseed meal at the right time of the year is no more "risky" than some of the other practices and programs we use to manage ponds and take for granted.

Fish food supplement is a source of organic nutrients as well and hasn't been addressed in this thread. How many of us have quantified the amount of accumulated fish waste affecting their ponds every year, indirectly, through supplemental fish food?

Use of herbicides to treat vegetation produce significant organic wastes that can be fuel for plankton, and most pros will agree that April/May are the best times for vegetation control programs in this area. How many of us have quantified the amount of organic biomass that is exposed to an aquatic system after a vegetation treatment?

I reserve the right to change my recommendations once we've seen Chad's pond, but for now I want him to be prepared to follow this plan. I also would like for him to document his progress and/or failures.

Todd Im trying to understand and want to see if this will help with clients that have trouble with inorganic fert in getting a bloom especialy in the early season.

I just do not grasp the concept unless you know precisely how it will react to control bloom. I mean if monitoring visibility in most cases I know how many lbs of 10-52-4 to add to get the bloom up " a little" does this methodology exist for cottnseed meal? How can only 2 applications work for entire year, does it persists longer? Thanks for educating us Todd.

I'm not an expert in the use of cottonseed meal, but I use it on my farm early in the season for fertilizing bluegill and bass production ponds, as do some commercial fish farms. We also use some liquid inorganic fertilizers in conjunction with cottonseed meal. We don't use organics after May because high temps represent high risk. Inorganics can be used to keep the maintain the bloom, and in Chad's case I'm hoping that the feeding program will maintain his bloom. Since I'm not hired to service Chad's ponds, this seems like the easiest plan for him to manage.

Hey, I'm in this for an education as well. I'm not afraid to implement a plan or to make recommendations that make sense to me based on my education and experience, even if I have read contradictory info somewhere, but I respect those who disagree with these recommendations.

10-4 I see your point about feeding helping with bloom. I guess I just really try to hit home with adding just a tiny amount of 10-52-4 when neccesary for consistency even in hot summer months if really clear water exist. I think I might try some cottonseeed meal though b/c it is early spring where we struggle at times to get bloom going with inorganic route.

My 2 cents in addition to my posts above. Every pond is different. You need to know how your pond reacts and what its limiting factors are. Get the soil and water tested. As Todd noted , dead plants and plankton , excess fish food , added fish waste from feeding and from more fish biomass are all sources of organics. I would add to that list the organics in the pond detritus. Those are more than enough organics. I don't want to add more to those sources by using organic fertilizer. As Greg noted I can add very small increments of inorganic fertilizer to get the bloom I need over the period of time required. I know how it will react in the pond and what will happen. I have no confidence in the ability to gauge what reaction will occur from using organic fertilize or how to reverse the process if its to much.

The archive thread on fertilization notes that it is a tool to be used only in the proper circumstance. Slowly and with understanding. The obvious downside being if you don't know what will happen or understand what you are doing you may well kill all your fish or make a sewage pond. I for one am not going to take that risk or suggest that someone else do so until they understand the what and how of fertilization. Using a fertilization source of unknown potential that adds unwanted organics is not one I would use on a pond that I knew little about. Way to much risk for me.

This does not mean that Todd is wrong just that I would not try that on a pond. His advice may well be just right in this circumstance.