Pond Boss Forums INTRO Questions & Observations Arkansas shiners?

Are these Arkansas shiners bad for a pond? That's what they sell around here for bait and I've heard some people don't want you using them in their ponds. Seems like there would never be enough of them to do much if you're just using them to fish with.

I've been using them in my pond and dumping out the ones we don't use for "fish food". Is that bad?

There is no such species as an "Arkansas shiner"... However, most fish farms in Arkansas that sell forage and bait fish, raise golden shiners. So guys probably just call them Arkansas shiners since there are so many fish farms in that state.

The problem stems from so called "bait bucket" releases is that you have no way of knowing for sure what species is in that bait bucket... In an order of supposed golden shiners, I have seen fathead minnows, red shiners, gambusia, goldfish, carp, green sunfish, bluegills and even bullheads... Heck, I even saw a tadpole one time. So you never truly know what species you are getting. Now 99% of the time, it is actually a golden shiner.

Golden shiners are often stocked in ponds and can be an excellent addition to a pond, particularly if your intentions are to grow large LMB with less of a concern for large sunfish. Golden shiners can grow to large sizes, in excess of 10". These adult golden shiners can compete with sunfish for food which is why they are often shunned by some pond owners.

One must be cognizant of what he puts in his pond or others fishing his pond put in it. This is why many pond owners do not allow people to use live bait in their ponds. The fear of unwanted species being introduced accidentally through "bait bucket" releases.

In all likelihood, you will not get an established population of golden shiners in your pond from a few left over golden shiners being tossed in. Many pond owners struggling to establish and keep golden shiner populations viable in ponds, even with thousands of fish being stocked. There is the chance that those golden shiners may not actually be golden shiners and could be carp or some other unwanted species.

Thanks for the response. When I Googled "Arkansas shiners", I got a lot of research papers on them. Funny thing is, about half were papers calling them endangered and in need of protection and the other half calling them invasive species. Of course, the reality is that the research was dependent upon the area of the country.

Just for clarification, what I was referring to as Arkansas shiners are silver-sided with dark backs. I've heard of golden shiners but have never actually seen one.

There is an "Arkansas River Shiner". Fishbase.org entry.

Does this look like what you have seen, Al?

yep. that's what is commonly sold in bait stores around here.

Kinda looks like fathead to the non Cyprinid nut! HAHA Actually looks more like a spottail shiner.