Pond Boss Forums POND CONSTRUCTION Selecting a site Questions about pond construction

Actually, I kind of thought that's what I was doing...

...my research now, to save me headaches down the road (as in posting pictures of a property I have not yet even purchased because I want to know whether the pond I want is feasible on this property).

I understand that ponds do not manage themselves and a fair amount of labor must be expended...but really, that kind of stuff isn't "work" to me. It's relaxation. I "work" in an emergency department, dealing with one catastrophe after another...car accidents, heart attacks, strokes, stitches, flu, obstructed bowels, pneumonia...giving bad news to families...12 hours at a time, year round. That's my work.

Getting out in the sunshine (even when it involves a little back-straining labor and puddles of sweat), connecting with nature, getting to spend some quality time with my 6 kids (and eventually my many grandkids), helping them to see and understand the more important things in life..and perhaps occasionally hooking into a monster bass, catfish or bluegill...that's not so much work, in my book. That's an escape from the reality of my daily grind.

I honestly don't mean any of this to sound argumentative. Just meaning to point out that one man's labor is another man's love.

I'm not encouraged by the way each draw runs up onto the neighboring properties. To get any kind of pond depth, you will either be into the bottom land or backing up water onto your neighbors.
The creek that runs thru your property looks like it can be a wildcat when it rains hard. I'm gonna guess that you might be in for issues by gettin' too close to it. Moving uphill puts you into your neighbor's. You can't dam up their draws unless you can provide a drainage system for each; big engineering job.

Big Mac,

When you have a couple hours to waste check out this site.

http://websoilsurvey.nrcs.usda.gov/app/WebSoilSurvey.aspx

It shows you the soil types and the things that are associated with that soil type.

You might have a better spot between the house and the main road. It will be a smaller pond; maybe an acre p/m. Don't discount a 1 ac pond.

Fascinating site (although I think it's going to take me more than a couple of hours to understand what I'm reading)

In the section that gives you the ability to determine suitability for pond placement, I got this data related to my proposed pond site placement (the area inside the red box indicates the soil type between the house and the stream behind it, where the pond would be located): What does this mean????

So if I understand what you're saying, there may not be sufficient run-off from adjacent land? What if I had a well to keep the pond full???

I'm not sure about that creek...I'm going to have to look into it. I wouldn't think it would see a lot of flash-flooding because this area doesn't seem to have drastic changes in elevation and there are several such streams in this area. However, this area has also seen a 500-year flood within the past 10 to 15 years, so I could see how high the water came up out of the stream at that point....

When you first get the soil map click on that soil type and it will give you more info.

I looked up that soil type and it said that the soil soaks up the water which will give you less runoff but there is clay present.

Okay...so I looked through some more things on this site (again...very cool site...thanks for the link), and according to this site...

Soil conditions here are quite favorable to pond excavation, with the only limiting factor being the slope (e.g., I guess not adequate run-off). However, this site also states that this piece of land has no risk of flooding (not in the 500-yr flood plain).

This area is also fairly eroded, which would seem to make it easier to get help from the State of Missouri for financial / engineering support in construction (erosion control and all)

Given the stream behind this proposed site for drainage below the dam, the biggest limiting factor seems to be...WATER.

Hmmmm...now how do I find out about the feasibility of digging a well on this site to keep water in the pond???? Thinking...thinking...

I looked at a different thing and you won't have to worry about the soil soaking up all of the water if the rest of the soil in the watershed is similar.

Here is another link that lets you find out the area of the watershed. Place a point on both sides of the proposed dam and the place more points on the upper end of the watershed.

http://acme.com/planimeter/

I don't think there's much issue with enough drainage to feed a pond. What I'm concerned for is at what point the water level will move across the property boundary as it creeps up the bottom of each draw (ravine) that comes in from your neighbors on the north and south side.

Thanks, Chris. I'll check out this site as soon as I get the first site figured out. LOL Lots and lots of good info coming now!

I'm confused. Shouldn't I be able to prevent the water from going onto my neighbors' property with proper pond design and an outlet that regulates maximum pond level?????

I assume that your topo is 10' elevation for every graduated line. You would have to dig so far down to keep the water off your neighbor that you might be flirting with the creek level.

By the way...if someone could answer this question for me...

IF I were well-feed the pond, would it give me more control over not only consistent water levels in the pond, but pond design (i.e., I could dig a bowl and not worry about encroaching upon neighboring properties)?

The thing is, I think I'll need to end up digging a well on this property, regardless. My wife likes "green acres", and I would likely run irrigation along a significant portion of the property. Otherwise, I would have insane water bills every month (like I do now). This property would have lots of grass to water, a swimming pool, and a decent size pond...just makes financial sense to dig a well, I think.

For the sake of accuracy, I pulled up the USGS topo map, and I placed satellite image above it. Red square represents approx property lines, blue oval represents approximate pond site. I don't know that much about reading these things, so I hope this makes it easier for you to accurately interpret the terrain and such.

Mac

Mac, I believe in northern mo the rule of thumb is 15 acres of watershed to feed a 1 acre pond. As for the well, 1 acre of water 1 inch thick is 27,000 gallons, I think it might be tough to maintain that large of pond with a well.
I'm pretty sure you could call the local fsa and get a courtesy visit to help you out.

OK Mac...that's a little better. Your first map had your property lines shifted further north. This last topo (above) seems to indicate that you are still in the game as far as keeping the water onto your parcel. The issuse still remain regarding getting too close to the creek level. As you see, some of the proposed boundary touches the same level as the creek. You will be building a dam across this area. If this is indeed the case (and does create legal and engineering problems), your project could still be viable by pulling the eastern pondsite boundary uphill a bit and to the west.
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(edit; see that smaller pond directly south? They did the same thing, at the same level)
Your next step should be the NRCS for oversight and guidance.

Spoke with a very nice and helpful gentleman on the phone today—Jim VanDyke, with the Missouri Water Resources Center, a division of the MO DNR. Wow! Did this guy have a lot of information at his finger tips… If any of you need information about water and soil in MO, I would highly recommend calling this guy…super nice guy, and willing to spend as much time as you need answering questions.


He was able to give me a fair amount of good news. He said the soil in this are is some of the best for pond building in the state. He used a bunch of fancy words and terms I didn’t really understand, but then summarized it by saying the soil was glacial and to a fair depth, meaning it would be easy to dig a deep pond if I wanted to because I wouldn’t have to worry about running into rock. He also said that this soil had very low seepage—so much so that I shouldn’t need to line the bottom of the pond with clay or other materials to prevent seepage.

He pulled my property up on his computer and looked at the lay of the land for me. He said if I was planning on building a 3 acre pond on my property in the middle of my property, I would have an approximate 10:1 acre runoff ratio. If I moved the pond further east, toward the stream at the back of the property, that ratio would be closer to 15:1 (which he said is just about ideal…higher than that, he said, would lend concerns to dam erosion from over-topping). I expressed concern to him about building the dam too close to that stream, and whether that might create an opportunity for dam erosion when the stream ran high. He said it didn’t look like it would likely be a problem to him, but advised I double check with the Soil Conservation Service.

On the down side, he said this is not a good area at all to dig a well. He was able to pull up all of the wells in the area built since the mid 1980s. They all hit water at 70 to 100 feet depth, but the highest rate of GPM was 10…which ain’t much water flow. There was an oil drilling test site approx ¼ mile from my property, and they didn’t hit any higher water flow rates than that when they drilled to 700 feet. Plus, the water in this area is highly mineralized, and would perhaps be conducive to irrigation of crops, but he would not recommend putting it into a pond as it would mineralize the pond as the water evaporated. His advice was don’t dig a well, dig the pond deep in order to retain volume of water as evaporation occurred.

Does all this sound right to you folks???

That sounds right on the money to me, it looks like you may of found a home. Is the aeriel by Cameron or Chillicothe?.

Trimble, actually. On the eastern side of Smithville Lake (the red dot on the map below).



After talking to this guy today, I think this would be the best spot (approximately) for the pond. It would be around 2.7 acres or so, and would have about a 12:1 runoff ratio.



My wife is still not 100% sold on this home. She thinks she also likes another home up by Edgerton, MO. The land around this home she likes (96 acres) is incredible, and I wouldn't have any problem at all finding many suitable sites for large ponds. So I guess I'll have to wait and see what my wife (aka "boss") tells me we're going to do.

Here's the other property my wife is interested in...the outlined area in red is about 50 acres...which is only half the acreage of this property. I can't even tell where the other half of the property lies...

...and, as seen from the topo map, no problem building a big pond on this site...

Forgot...ran across a pretty cool pond building and management guide put out by the State of Missouri today...perhaps others have already seen it. Seems to have some pretty useful information in it, so thought I'd post a link to the publication in the event someone might find it useful...

http://mdc4.mdc.mo.gov/Documents/22.pdf

Thanks for posting that link Big. There are quite a few good pond publications available and I always like adding to my library of pond material. Ewest has created a thread in the archives with a bunch of these publications. If you haven't seen it already check it out.

Archive thread of pond publications

SEE I told you. Once these people quit sponsering Bud they seem to be quite helpful.

Mac:

Whatever you build and where ever it ends up, keep the Natural Resources Conservation Service (NRCS) folks in the loop. They're a division of USDA and, while some have had less than stellar experiences with them, all the folks I've talked with over the years have been great help.

They came out and surveyed my property several times (FREE!) to help me decide exactly where to lay my ponds. 50% cost share on one and 10 yr interest free loan on the other...

They have their hands on the federal "money bag"...i.e., they can steer you towards many sources of federal cost-share funds. Granted, the bag ain't so large right now, but things change every year.

Welcome...from Iowa. Ponds are a blast!