Pond Boss Forums STOCKING A NEW POND Raising Forage and Bait Gambusia On - err, Under - Ice

Mosquitofish have upturned mouths that are designed for feeding on surface items such as mosquito larvae. How much better they are at it, probably not much. But they will definately survive heavy predation as compared to FHM which will be long ago eaten. Banded killifish have a similar mouth shape, are more predation telerant and grow to about 5". A few hatcheries sell them and I feel they are a great forage fish for ponds. They are often called bull minnows in the fish trade.

I've been following this topic with much interest,and would like to add more diversity in minnow species to the pond, because I might add SMB, or HSB this year.
I have GSH, & PS'S, and looking into adding central mudminnows.
It's probably too cold up here for gambusia with ice cover from Nov.thru April, but they appear to be very tough.

Any thoughts or opinions welcome.

It couldn't hurt to try stocking them and see if they would survive the heavy ice cover. I know of two ponds that stay cold enough to support trout year round that also have helthy mosquitofish populations... If you need a source when the weather breaks I can catch you a couple dozen and if you pay for the shipping I'll send them up your way... You could also treat them like tilapia. Stock them in the spring and let them multiply all summer. Then close to winter catch a couple dozen to keep indoors until the following spring to reseed your pond.

As I said above another options would be banded killifish also known as bull minnows. I know Zetts Fish Hatchery in WV sells them so if you cannot find a wild population to collect from that could be an option. They reach a maximum size of about 4-5 inches and do very well in ponds even under predation.

Bluntnose minnows are also an option. They are very closely related to FHM but in my experience are a fair amount more capable of maintaining numbers under predation. Particularly if given good cover to take refuge in. I would look into locating a wild source of them as they are native to the Adirondack region. Bill Cody has a lot of experience with them as well and maybe able to give you a source for hatchery reared ones. He just said he will be publishing an article on bluntnose minnows in an upcoming Pond Boss issue. He and I are in agreement that they are much better forage than FHM.

Another option is the spotfin shiner. The challenge here is finding a source. They are native to the Adirondack region as well so you may be able to find them in the wild to collect. Bill Cody seems to be an expert in them, so he may be able to chime in on a possible source and if they would be worth your effort...

Thanks CJ for the info, one concern I have is how tolerant are these different minnows to acid water. My PH usually runs between 5& 5.5.
The first year of my pond in 2006, I put in GSH & FHM only, the GSH have done great, but never saw the FHM again after the first year.
I have a chart of critical ph ranges of fish, and FHM range from 5.5 and up, GSH range from 4.5 and up.
Other minnows shown to be acid tolerant are mudminnow,creek chub,N.redbellied dace, alot of other minnows are not shown, like the gambusia, and killifish.

All opinions appreciated.

The FHM probably were all eaten in short order if there were any predatory fish in the pond. The pH may have played a roll in their demise as well. 5.0 to 5.5 is pretty acidic. I think their pH tolerance would be similar to the closely related bluntnose minnow.

From what I researched, pH tolerance for GHS is 4.6, bluntnose minnow 5.6 and spotfin shiner 6.4. I don't know the exact number but I know both mudminnow species are highly tolerant of low pH as well. It appears both the mosquitofish and banded killi are not tolerant of low pH. Finding forage for your low pH pond may be a trick. Both the white sucker and creek chubsucker are very tolerant to pH with 4.6 and 4.7 being their limits respectively.

The mudminnow species maybe one of your better bets...

CJ, I've been searching the internet for 2 hours and it does seem that the Gambusia, and killifish will not tolerate acidic water.
The mudminnow and creek chub look like the best options, and maybe the northern redbelly dace.
When I put the GSH and FHM in the first year there were no other fish stocked that year, so I think the acid water did the FHM in.
Thanks for the PM, info on adirondack lakes, I had not seen that one, so I'll read that tonight.

Creek chubs won't spawn in your pond but if you put enough in there, they'll at least be food for your fish. I think I recall seeing your pond was fed by piping water from your creek into the pond... Perhaps the creek chubs may attempt spawning in that area...

I think the northern redbellies may do OK. You could also consider liming your pond to bring the pH up. I know they do that with a lot of the ponds in VA that have been hurt by acid mine drainage...

I've been trapping fish in the stream for 3 years and the only species in there are brook trout, PS, and crayfish. Thats how I got PS's in the pond, it was a month before I put a filter box on the inlet hoses, but I wanted PS's in the pond anyway.
I would be afraid of introducing creek chubs to the stream because it might upset the trout reproduction.

The Adirondack Lakes survey has info on most of the thousands of ponds & lakes up here, and I found 5 listed near by that contain a different combination Mudminnow, Redbelly Dace, Banded Killifish,and Creek Chubs, so I'll be trapping this spring.

Putting lime in the pond probably wouldn't help for long with 40gal-min. flowing in. The DEC had better success reclaiming acid ponds by heavily liming the surrounding ground, but either way it's an expensive proposition.

CJ, I don't know if you have Pumpkinseeds down there, but if you ever need some let me know.

Fortunately PS are native to the Potomac River which is the drainage I live closest to. Some very pretty fish! Hopefully that survey will give you a good start in finding some extra forage species for your pond...

Posting a final Winter report.

The Gams made it through the Winter AOK in all three BOW - the new pond, 0.45 acre (no aeration yet) with a huge Gam population going in to Winter and a minimal number of newly stocked predators; the old pond, 0.9 acres (windmill aerator) with a middlin' number of Gams and well established populations of BG, RES, LMB, and CC; and the watering trough, 100 gallons (tank heater to keep it at 40 degrees or more), with nothing but horses trying to drink the water. Gams are present and active in all three, with a very large number apparent in the new pond.

Now I am anxious to see how the SMB and YP fingerlings stocked last Fall in the new pond do this year on GAM + FHM forage. I haven't caught anything in that pond yet in just a couple of attempts, but I did have a couple nibbles and lost worms yesterday.

Good to hear Theo, I was confident they would pull through in all your waters just fine. They are tougher than people think!

Interesting, I guess that opens up Gambusia as an option in my pond. I always thought they wouldn't make it through the winter in my pond.

Further north, I believe there is a substantial die off at times of gambusia due to the cold, but enough survive to repopulate the pond the following spring. As long as your get gambusia who are native to the northern natural range I think you will be fine.