Pond Boss Forums STOCKING A NEW POND Raising Forage and Bait Minnows for a Canadian pond?

Hi all!
I have a 3/4 acre pond here in Ontario, Canada that has a population of Sunfish, Yellow Perch, Rock Bass, Suckers, Rainbow trout, LMB, and SMB.I know, it's a real hodge podge!

The LMB and SMB are in very limited numbers. I stocked 200 Fry about 1" long, a year ago last June. Most of them were devoured pretty quick! I also had a spawn from the resident adults this past June. Our of approx. 600 to 1000 fry, I only have a few of them left.

The water is 10 feet deep at the deepest point and is extremely clear. There is an artesian well that flows into it with 46 deg. F water, 365 days a year. The surface temp gets to about 75 deg. F in mid summer, and the depths are cooler. We snorkel in the pond all summer and I am positive there are no minnow species present. There are also very few Leopard frogs and NO leeches.

My concerns are as follows:
1) I'm afraid the predator species such as Bass and Trout won't have enough feed.
2) We occasionally feed some trout pellets by hand, but this is only a treat for the trout and panfish. The Bass won't touch them.
3) I feel I should be stocking some minnows and I could catch these from a local creek, but i am concerned about introducing another species and possible disease that they could bring.
4)The local hatcheries only have trout and are not much help with feed fish (or even pellet food for that matter!)

Sorry for all the questions, but I can't seem to locate this info on this forum in my searches. I envy those of you in the South with all of your sources and know how.The Bass don't seem to be growing as fast as I think they should. Of course, the pond is presently frozen over today!

The pond Boss Magazine is fantastic! I see there are a few pondmeisters from our area and also the northern States, so I'm hoping some of you have a few ideas for me.

Thanks,Brian

Hi, Brian.

If I mapquested you correctly, you are in that wonderful land surrounded by Lakes Erie, Ontario, Michigan, and Simco. Beautiful country.

What are your goals for the pond? Which species do you want to maximize the growth of? Or are you interested in a more balanced, diverse population?

Do you know what species of sunfish you have? BG are very prolific and produce a great deal of forage for predators. If you don't have any BG, you might consider introducing them.


Those are valid concerns.

Feeding predators by restocking minnows is an expensive (if you buy minnows) or labor intensive (if you trap and transfer) proposition. IF you are able & willing to feed regularly, this would support many of your species directly (certainly BG & trout, most probably YP, quite possibly SMB; even LMB are capable of learning to eat pellets when hungry, motivated, and shown the way by other fish eating them regularly), and would indirectly help non-pellet eating predators via increased forge fish reproduction & growth.

Our Northern-tier PMs should have a good idea what you can do with your current (and possible additional) forage species.

Theo,
Thanks for the quick response! I think you have my location pegged pretty good!!
My goals are to have a pond that we can swim in, but also enjoy the fish populations as well. This pond is very close to my back door!:)We have not fished it as yet, because I want the existing fish to prosper a bit longer. My dream was always to have a fishing hole in the yard, but for now, i am happy to just watch them. Once they take hold in good numbers, we will harvest them as required. By then, we should have Grandchildren!

| did see YP eggs this past Spring, but no fry to my knowledge. I was only able to identify these eggs from a post by Dr. Willis. I had never seen them before!There are a couple of bigger (8 to 10") YP and maybe a dozen smaller (3 to 4") ones.
I see many small 1-2" sunfish, but I believe they are RES, not true BG. I never see the fry from these guys either, but there are plenty of RES and RB nests each Spring or early Summer.

I'm assuming that the existing adult Bass (3 LMB and 2 SMB) are sustaining themselves on the young RES and young RB?

I don't think FHM are available in our area. I have no idea what type of minnows are in the creek, but I see them all the time.

The suckers we have are quite large (10" to 12") and I imagine they devour their share of eggs.These were already there, otherwise I would not have put them in!I think they do their share to keep the bottom grasses down.

As far as cover goes, we have two docks, a floating gazebo, some other floating wood piles,an old duck boat that is anchored and a few weed beds. The weeds die off each winter and are replaced with new growth each spring.

I have a bubbler pump in the south end and a fountain aerator in the North end floating.

The continuous flow of 46 deg. water all year keeps one area of the pond from freezing over.I shut the bubbler off for the winter and remove the floating fountain.

I hope this helps a bit with the scenario.

Hello Brian, It seems like you have quite a diverse fish population, and as Theo suggested minnows could be expensive with all those adult fish around. You mentioned you had sunfish & perch , maybe if you added more structure to your pond it would allow them to increase your forage base, and continue to feed pellets to take the pressure off them.
I have golden shiners, and they have done well, but with your clear water I think adequate structure is gonna be important, maybe building small artificial islands would help, there are some good posts on this forum about building them. Good Luck !

Your sunfish or RES as you call them are very likely pumpkinseed sunfish (PS) which also have a red tab on the gill flap. PS are more colorful than RES. True redear sunfish will not survive the winters in your far northern zone. PS are common in Canada.

I think the best approach for your fishery is:
1. Emphasize the trout and feed them to make them grow better or faster. Any other fish that learn to eat the trout food will benefit by increased growth rates. Do not over feed which could tend to make your pond more cloudy due to more plankton growth. But since you probably have some constant flow-through or over flow, cloudiness from plankton growth will tend to be reduced or a minimal problem.
2. The mainly, pretty cool temperatures of your spring fed pond will tend slow down the growth of the other non-trout fish present. Your other non-trout like warmer water for good growth rates.
3. IMO increasing the abundance of small fish in your pond will best be done by not adding more forage fish but by reducing the numbers of bass that are primarily responsible for eating close to 65%-85% of your small fish. If you feed the trout pellets then this percentage will then be closer to 86%-95% small fish consumption by the bass. Trout "on pellets" eat fewer forage fish. Thus if you focus the fish harvest on keeping bass and add some fish structure or cover (tree brush) as suggested by Adirondack, then you will see an increase in numbers of small perch and PS. True suckers will not spawn in your pond. If you see small sucker-like fish, IMO they will not be suckers but some other species of fish. If you don't see small fish numbers increase by the next year or two, then you have not removed enough bass per yr. Remove bass till you see number of small fish start to increase.
4. If small fish seem to become too abundant then reduce the number of bass harvested each year. Bass will continually reproduce each year to provide a constant supply of too many predators present. Bass tend to do that.
5. I doubt that the suckers eat eggs of the bass or sunfish. Nest builders (sunfish, bass) defend nest and eggs from intruders including suckers. I'm not sure the suckers will even eat the unguarded perch eggs. Perch eggs are supposed to have an off-flavor that helps deter other things such as fish and birds from eating them. If you suspect something is eating the perch eggs try putting some of the laid YP eggs in a floating laundry basket or other container that allows water flow through yet excludes swimming predators. Eggs will hatch (7-14days depends on water temp) in the container and fry will swim out into the open pond. If your pond water is quite clear, it has few zooplankton, and perch fry have little to eat when they hatch thus survival could be low partly due to this.

6. If you have "lots?" of small (1"-2") sunfish and few 3"-5" sunfish then the bass are primarily eating and cropping the larger sized sunfish and mostly ignoring the 1"-1.7" size. Again reduce the bass numbers esp larger bass (12"-14") and numbers of larger sunfish and possibly perch will increase. Larger perch (6"-10") will also readily eat small 1"-2" fish.

7. If your emphasis is catching larger fish of 16"-22" then emphasize the trout by feeding pellets.

Thanks Adirondack pond.
I plan to sink a few Christmas trees this year to add some cover. I am also allowing the few weed beds to stay, as they are really the only decent cover available.

Bill Cody,
Thanks for all the info! We like admiring the Rainbow Trout as they go nuts for the pellets! They put on quite a show. These fish are getting quite large (2 to 4 pounds)and are most likely feeding on small fry? As I said, the pellets are like a treat, rather than a regular feed. It is my understanding that the Trout are strictly a "put and take" fish that will not reproduce in the pond? We have 8 of them and I was not planning to add more until they died off.

My favourite fish by far are the Bass. I figured that the 5 adults and maybe a dozen remaining adolescents are still underpopulated?
The one SMB is big by our standards at around 4 pounds! I added another SMB, but cannot tell if I have a male and a female.
When I added the two adult LMB to the pond last year, I must have gotten lucky and added at least one member of the opposite sex! Originally, there were only two adult Bass. 1 SMB and 1 LMB.

Watching the LMB spawn, guard the nest, guard the young fry, and see a few of them survive was a fantastic experience! The whole family enjoyed checking on them daily. All you had to do was walk around the pond and look for the mass of fry and the male guarding them!

I don't know if we will ever get enough Bass to start fishing for them, but I'm hoping! As it is, we know them by name!

You are correct I believe and that what we have, are likely Pumpkinseed. Is there a good resource on the different strains?

That is good news about the suckers not reproducing. It makes sense because we don't see any small ones. I hope the Panfish and Bass can keep them away from the nests. I think the RockBass are probably the biggest nest raiders! All of the Panfish that live near the feeding dock go for the pellets, but if we feed them in other areas, they are reluctant.

We also have two huge goldfish that eat the pellets. Do you know if these goldfish will eat the bottom grass? I thought I read somewhere that they are vegetarian. The bottom in some areas does get a real thick mat of grass or weeds growing about a foot thick during the summer. I'm hoping that this is also good cover for fry.

This is all great info you folks are sharing with me!
Thanks

You may want to look at my last post about Fatheads and transfering egg masses. You also need to be aware of the VHS virus if you are in the vacinity of the Great Lakes. It is a invasive brought over from Europe that has found a way to mutate from saltwater to freshwater and as such poses a considerable risk of transferance. By transfering eggs in clean water you should eliminate the problem.
I would hesitate before I moved minnows from a moving water source as the Creek Chub could be one of the species you might catch. They are aggressive and will feed on anything smaller than themselves this could pose a problem to smaller fish. But they will not spawn in the absence of current so will not reproduce.
I would recommend trying the PVC pipe spawning structures for Fathead minnows and move the eggs into your ponds. It may be the safest alternative.
Gammarus Lacustris may also be a good alternative to minnows.
They also can be found in your area.
Shoreline areas with moderate to dense vegetation in ponds and lakes in your area should yield some Gammarus.
A tow net or fine mesh dip net pulled through the vegetation can produce suprising results and the inverts. can be transfered in a cooler of water. (always bring your own water in the cooler and drain all water from minnows and invertebrates away from your ponds before placing you in your pond)
I can give you maore info if you need it including net designs for ivertebrates.
Barry

As Barry says the creek chub is common in creeks and ditches in your area. If you get minnows form a stream you at least should learn to recognize the common chubs, shiners and minnows. Chubs in a pond will get large if not first eaten by a bass. Bass love chubs and a 14" bass can easily eat a chub up to 10" long. I doubt that chubs will survive very long in your small pond with a few larger adult bass present. At least I have never been able to get chubs to survive in a smaller pond with bass in it. Chubs disappear faster than the other similar lengthed spiney fish species.