Pond Boss Forums STOCKING A NEW POND Types of fish to choose How long is too long before stocking predators?

I have been a part time reader of the Pond Boss forums for quite some time which I have really enjoyed, but this will be my first post. I appologize in advance if this question has been previously discussed.
I have recently completed construction on my new 5.6 acre pond in N.E. Texas. I had intended to stock baitfish in October but construction delays have caused me to miss the fall stocking for 08. Would it be unreasonable to stock CNB, FHM, RES, Threadfin Shad, and possibly a few Tilapia this spring and allow them to grow unmolested by predators for a full year (other than the Tilapia), stocking primarily LMB, with low numbers of CC, and HSB in early summer of 2010? I really want the baitfish to have a strong start before adding the predators, but would like to know of any disadvantages to this strategy. Any advice or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

I see no disadvantage to that idea. I would skip the tilapia. They will die before you stock predators.

My idea: Wait to stock predators until they can fall asleep with their mouth open and wake up with a full belly. Actually, I think there would be no downside to stocking some cats with the forage.

Welcome neighbor to the PB forum.
I’ll let the experts address your stocking questions, but since our ponds are located ~20 miles south of Paris, I will be happy to share my experience with you – good and bad.

I have been blessed over the past several years by receiving advice from the fishery pros on this forum that has allowed me to consistently grow some of the best CNBG and HSB in this part of the country.

Where are your ponds located?
George Glazener

Continued ......

FRPeeps, I don’t give advice, only share experience.
The experts are more qualified than I am, but from a fisherman’s perspective – this is what I would do stocking a brand new N.E. Texas pond:

Spring 2009
Stock recommended/acre numbers:
“Pure” Florida CNBG, RES and FHM fingerlings
CC fingerlings based on numbers planned to harvest each year.
HSB fingerlings at recommended/acre rate.

Install aeration system.
Begin Purina AQMX feeding program.

Spring 2010
Rcomended number of TFS and tilapia.
Stock Dave Davidson’s LMB numbers as recommended.
Evaluate aquatic vegetation and stock recommended numbers of GC (grass carp) if required.

Following years, each spring begin adult HSB “stocking ladder” in desired numbers, to ALWAYS have a population of the best 3 –5# sport fish in this part of the country.

This is what I would do if I were starting over – and I almost am after a major fish kill the past summer.
Pay close attention to water quality and aeration.
Consider stocking feed trained LMB to achieve stated goals of a LMB fishery.

My experience is managing ¼ acre and 2-acre ponds – consult experts for 5-6 acre pond.
Establish a working relationship with a trusted supplier/fisheries biologist - DON’T buy fish off a fish truck!

Hope this helps.
Ps: I know personally, and/or have done business with and trust to the utmost, the following fisheries biologists/suppliers in our area:
(In alphabetical order}
Bob Lusk – Pond Boss
Bob Waldrop – Tyler Fish Farms
Todd Overton – Overton Fisheries

Thanks for the replies guys.

Dave - My idea on the Tilapia prior to any predators is due to one of my friends grilling some that they had taken from Lake Fairfield, and they were outstanding table fare. As I get older I have come to appreciate the "eating fish" as much as the game fish. My understanding was that the Tilapia reproduced very rapidly, and the original stockers would acheive decent size prior to the winter die off. Even though they may be difficult to catch on rod and reel it sounds as though they can be scooped out of the water once it cools and they become sluggish. Your idea about the preds falling asleep and waking up with a full belly is along the lines of what I was thinking also. I was concerned though that too many baitfish might make the predators hard to catch with a hook, at least for a while until the food supply became somewhat depleted. I was hoping to hear from some of the experts on whether that would be a problem. Also, would the CC prey on the FHM's?

George - This is my first experience with being a pond owner but it's something I have wanted for quite a while. My pond is located in North East Lamar County about 17 miles outside of Paris. I have had a great time during this whole process. I did a lot of reading (mostly on this site) before starting construction but I'm still learning and loving every bit of it!
I appreciate the suggestions on the Baitfish stockers. I was a bit surprised by your mentioning the aeration system. Is that mostly for the HSB or is it needed in general? I do plan to begin a feeding program. I was wondering if a single feeding station would be enough on this size pond? I have constructed a dock and was planning to feed from there.
As George mentioned, if anyone has advise or experience with ponds in the 5-6 acre range please respond with your input, any input. I love this stuff!

Thanks,
Frank

Frank,

Is your property located off of FM 906 north of Novice?

Chris, That's exactly where it is.

We are neighbors then. From your place head east till the blacktop ends. My place is the first gate on the right when the white rock starts.

From the road it looks like a good pond. The next time I am down at my property we need to get together.

Chris, It's good to hear from you again. I had no idea we were neighbors. You and I exchanged e-mails back in March but we didn't manage to hook up to look at what I had planned to do about building my pond. If you're property is on the same road as mine, you know where my shop is located, just prior to the high fenced ranch. We're there often. If you see a vehicle there please feel free to stop by and I'll give you the tour. I would be interested to hear any ideas or suggestions you might have about what I'm doing. The last rain we had has the water up to the bottom of the pipe now. It's like watching a pot of water on the stove, it just won't boil (fill up)fast enough!

If I would have know you were so close I would have definitely come out. It would have been cool to see it before and after construction. I will let you know the next time I am down so maybe we can make some plans.

If you look at a satellite photo of your place and see those two ponds to the northwest. The one on the right is owned by a pondbosser as well. I think his name is Jim Moffett.

Here are some pictures from the west end of the dam before construction, during construction, and after completion.

FRPeeps, welcome.
Great project and congrats. I am at the same stage as you, my 5 acre pond filled in August last year, but do to many reasons it did not get stocked fall 08. I also agree with the idea that the predators should have the most forage possible, however im not that patient. I plan to simulate the year of forage reproduction by July of 09 (this year haha I forgot its new years). Here is how I plan to do it (just an idea).

I plan to stock CNBG at or above 1000/acre. (5acre X 1000/a = 5000+ fish)
At least 1000 of these will be 3-5in. big enough to get a spawn before the bass come in.

I plan to stock heavy on FHM, and golden shiners.
RES will also be stocked.

March/April some Tshad
Maybe even Tilapia.

Finally I plan to stock 2in bass in june/july at 50/a or less.

This will create a high forage fish to bass ratio, in less time. Also increasing my carrying capacity much quicker.

This is probably not as good as a full year of forage reproduction, but it is quicker. There are pros and cons to every stocking plan, but I plan to do something similar to this, it is just my take on it.

There are many more things to think about such as aeration system as George mentioned.

Bottom line have fun! its great to have a pond.

Hey guys, can I come?

Frank, your pond project has me all excited just thinking about starting a new pond and to avoid all the mistakes that I made in the learnng process.

One word of caution however.
Chris Steelman is an amateur - he hasn't killed 10 kazillion fish as yet.. ...
I turned pro last summer ...

IMO opinion aeration is the most important piece of the pondmeister's arsenal, dependent upon the size and depth of a pond/Lake. There are some heavyweight aeration specialists that frequent this forum that will offer some good advise.
How deep is your pond?

As you know we have hot summers and low water/drought conditions in N.E. Texas, which make aeration important, as well as controling high nurient load which will come in time.

The second most important element to achieve your stated goals of trophy LMB and "fish on the grill" is an aggressive feeding program.
I have three automatic feeders on 2 acres, not so much to increase amount of feed but to avoid concentrating too many fish in one area.

Tilapia on the grill are going to be hard to come by.
Try HSB "on the half shell" for a year round treat.

Good luck and continue the pictures - they are great.
George

Come on up George. You can tour our ponds and then we can have a cookout or something.

Chris, I had no idea your place was that close - thought you were further to the N&E...
Between the two of us we can really get Frank in "deep water" - pun intended...

Hey gang, I have posted a pictoral of my pond project under Pond construction in the "building a dam" section. Check it out.

And I would be proud to have all you guys out for a visit. I can only imagine how much "deep water" I could get into.

jakeb - I like your idea of heavily stocking the baitfish and moving forward with stocking your predators. Be sure to give us an update of how that works out.

george - I have been struggling with how to answer your question "How deep is your pond?"
The main pool in font of the dam is 16 feet deep, but I'm guessing the bulk of the pond averages 4'-12' in depth. I had my excavator add slope to most of the edges to acheive 4'depth ASAP to avoid excessive aquatic vegetation. I did have him leave a couple of areas in the upper end with their natural contour which I have in mind to make great spawning areas. Of course that's speculation on my part which is one reason I would love for you and Chris to have a look at it before it fills to give me your perspectives. That's another reason I went with the level control box in case I need to come back later to make changes.

Frank, you and Chris come up with a date - I can come anytime (as long it's a nice warm day.. )
I'll tow my Mule to get around the pond to keep up with you and Chris...

16 ft at the dam sounds like "safe" water for a N.E. Texas drought period. We did well with max 12ft and would have survived last last summer fish kill if I paid more attention to aeration. Should run 24/7 during hottest months.
George

i want george to come to my pond

EVERYONE wants George to come to their pond. I think it is safe to say if George traveled to every pond whose owner wanted him to come to their pond he probably wouldn't stop traveling for 5 or 6 years. Just meeting George in person was an honor and a privledge for me and I can honestly say one of the bright highlights of the 2008 year for me. (Well that and winning the bid on his fly shadow boxes). You ought to see his fly cast in person, it is amazing to behold.

Mrs. G. says, “he really has you guys fooled – he doesn’t even know how run a vacuum cleaner” ...
I tend to agree with her but she says to thank y’all for the complement, but I don’t know nuthin compared to most of you guys.

OK, now back to Frank’s topic:

I'm still considering the stocking question. I just keep thinking of a fishery loaded with baitfish when the LMB are introduced. Any other opinions...anybody?

George - I drove down to see where Chris's property is located and it can't be much more than a mile from my gate to his so you should be able to kill two birds with a single trip for sure. It is literally a 20 minute drive for me to get to my property from my home in Paris so like you I can go almost anytime. We need to get Chris's schedule to see when a visit would suit him. Hopefully it will be a few days before he's avaiable so I'll have time to write down all the questions I have for both of you.