Pond Boss Forums POND CONSTRUCTION Renovating a Pond or Lake? To Rotenone or not to Rotenone, tis the question

First off, I'm throwing a New Year's Party in Amman, Jordan - Pondboss members are most welcome!

Now back to business

Background - 2 old kaolin mine ponds in Middle Georgia that are pretty much dead. Alkalinity <5, Hardness <5, Conductivity 13, PH 6.3, Visibility 36". Both are 5 surface acres and 25' at their deepest points. One will be a trophy bass pond and the other will be an all around fishery. We'll have to lime both ponds aggressively (so buy lime now before I cause prices to skyrocket). As well as fertilizing.

Matthew Morgan from Lakework did the survey of both ponds and we have 2 different options.
1. Rotenone
2. No Rotenone and add bigger fish.

My concern is that the depth of the ponds is such that Rotenone will not be completely effective (and at those prices, I want 1st time success or as close as possible).

Looking forward to hearing your thoughts. thanks, Chad

PS - just added another 1/3 acre pond that is filling up quickly - will be the catfish pond.

also, there is a small pond just next to the future trophy bass pond that will be used as a forage pond. I will definitely be Rotenone'ing that one and starting fresh.

What all (species, sizes, numbers ???) is in the two 5 acre ponds now?

My $0.02? Some things (stunted bass, stunted BG), I would "add bigger fish" to fix. Some (10 million common carp) I would rotenone to the best of my applicator's ability.

Theo, based on the electroshocking, just few of small, very hungry, very stunted bluegill (a 6 yr old fish that is 4 or 5", for example), a few warmouth, green sunfish, and an equal number of 6" suckers. No fish bigger than 6" was caught. I know there is at least one old stunted bass having lost it on a cane pole.

We shocked no carp, crappy, cc, or bass. There is just no food for these fish to feast on.

At this point, I'm leaning towards adding bigger fish during the initial stocking period - the cost is about the same with respect to fish stocking recommendations, and no Rotenone cost.

That doesn't sound like anything nasty enough to take the "nuclear option". Even the small suckers should make good bass food.

I'd forego the rotenone and add bass large enough to escape any expected predation from the existing population. Greg and Matt can fix you up with good fish with good genetics.

I think I would also upgrade my BG with some adult CNBG if I were in your location (unfortunately, not an option up here).

Thanks Theo - you must either be a night owl or an early riser.

The plan at this point for stocking:
Trophy Bass Pond (aka Snake Lake)
CNBG(4-5") - 2,500
FHM - 12,5000
Threadfin Shad - one load
Golden Shiners - 5 boxes
Crayfish - 250 lbs
F1 "Tiger" LMB (8-10") - 100

All around fishery (aka Bowen Pond)
CNBG (4-5") - 2,500
FHM - 12,500
Threadfin Shad - one load
Crayfish - 150 lbs
F1 "Tiger" LMB (8-10") - 175

I may also add some CC to Bowen Pond.

We don't have electricity yet at either pond so I'll have to wait on aerating, but I will be putting feeders with solar at both locations. Also, will be adding some structure and making spawning areas as time permits.

I have a lot of faith in Greg and Matt so wouldn't hesitate to rotenone. I kinda like the idea of knowing EXACTLY what is in my water hole. Electrofishing tells part of the story as does sampling. But you really don't know unless you start out fresh.

Dave, I agree and faith in them but I was given 2 options so I'm just getting the Pondboss opinion. If these ponds were normal and could be drawn down to a reasonable level a little easier, I'd probably lean more that way.

I'd be interested in hearing about others who did one or the other and the outcome vs expectations. thanks

Chad I will not say much to sway opinions here but you are thinking correct the depth is what makes the decison more difficult. Also the suckers require higher dose of rotenone to be effective. One disclaimer is that we are waiting on good forage base establishment prior to stocking the bass.
Glad to see you're still working on this project from afar.

Any other opinions for Chad?

Edinbowen,

Dave makes an awesome point. By starting fresh, you will always take that unknown element away and essentially cleanse the gene pool, eliminate potential predators, etc. You don't want to be caught in a situation 3 years down the road where you wished you would have started with a clean plate.

I like to give my clients options just as Greg has with you. Often times, decisions boil down to cost. You seem very serious about creating fantastic fisheries. There is a good chance that not using rotenone will prove to be a good decision, but using rotenone will boost confidence levels. Starting with the clean plate will make future management activities easier to achieve by eliminating problems that could be associated with the exisitng fishery. Down the road, there will be times where corrective actions will need to be taken, I say eliminate the fishery now and you eliminate mulitiple variables down the road.

Hopefully it will be possible for you to rotenone and stock the larger sized fish to get your fishery to where you want faster than using rotenone and stocking fingerlings.

Since you will be feeding, eventually aerating, etc, it would be hugely beneficial to your investment to KNOW what is and what isn't in your pond. This can only be realized by starting over. Good luck with you decision.

Thanks for the recommendations and Happy New Years to everyone!

Greg, enjoy your tractor. I just bought a new Kubota MX5100 with FEL and just about every attachment except for the backhoe. My dad is using it for so many jobs - he can't say enough about.