Pond Boss Forums POND CONSTRUCTION Soil questions professional pond builder in NW TN?

Greetings,

New to the forum and thankful for the great information. My wife and I are designing our retirement home (after 20 years in the Army) in Carroll County TN. We selected a beautiful home site overlooking a nice valley. We want to build a 2 acre recreational pond in the valley and are struggling thru this process. So far I have: 1. Arranged to remove (sell) all the timber to help pay for the project 2. Got a permit for building an embankment along the water drainage conveyance (NOT A STREAM) 3. Consulted NRCS / Soil Conservation folks for help with design. Now for the challenge: a soil scientists took core samples and is worried the soil is too sandy (Collins silt loam) and may leak. OUCH, OUCH, OUCH. My neighbor has a 1 acre pond 400 yards up the valley, but he may have more clay on the higher ground.

I researched Sodium Benonite online and found a bulk purchase deal for $3600 per 45,000 lbs shipped to my farm, which would give me 1 lb per sq ft and an additional $9k pond expense, which I can't afford on an Army retirement.

I would greatly appreciate any advice that could help us move forward with our project. Sorry, I tried adding images, but failed at this attempt with photbucket.



[img]
http://s431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/tnlandowner/?action=view¤t=Soils.jpg
[/img]

Thank you for assisting,

Jim

Hi Jim, welcome. The experts will be along later or in the AM.
Do you have clay or access to clay. it would probably be cheaper
and more reliable than Benonite. Once again welcome.

Jim I second Randy's advice. How much land do you have? Have you looked at soil maps or the sceientist test area on higher ground? Client in NW GA just finished up a pond. He had to get the clay several hundred yards up grade from dam site. It however created a wonderful food plot for him in the process of clearing. I will be in Dyersburg on duck hunt in two weeks if happen to be really closeby I might try to swing by.

At Ease Soldier!

You just found the most relaxing and informative site in the world for ponds and frienship!

Randy / Greg,

I haven't considered bringing clay from other areas of the farm, but that would be a lot cheaper than buying and shipping benonite! I tried to enlarge the soil map above, but not much luck (yet). I am not blessed with a lot of clay, but I am working with our county soil conservationist and will discuss your suggestion with him. We may have a source nearby. I also might get the soil scientist to come back up and meet me up there after Christmas. (I'm assigned near Fort Rucker, AL now and have a 6 hour commute to the retirement farm!).

Rainman,
Thanks for the welcome ;o)

God bless,
Jim

Howdy from Nashville, Jim.

No brilliant thoughts to add to any of the above; I just finished a ~2 acre pond a little south of you, not sure I'd recommend a specific builder or any of the folks I got bids from. I will say that there was a WIDE range in the numbers bid, about 250%!

It will definitely be less expensive to move clay; if you need to do a lot of hauling on your land, you may be able to find someone locally who is more than willing to do this for a fairly reasonable sum, even if you need to move large volumes. I've been trying to get rock for smallie habitat-it's 1/3rd the price now I was quoted a year ago. The construction slowdown is really taking a toll in our area. [NB to moderators: This is NOT a political statement!]

We'll all follow your progress with interest. Please PM me when you get ready to stock, I've got a couple recs on suppliers if you need them.

Sounds great, I haven't started the bidding process yet. I believe that I need to subscribe and surf this site for a while. Should enable me to make a more informed decision.

God bless,
Jim

Jim, start with your local NRCS field office. They will come out and look at the lay of the land, drill soil core samples, give an opinion on soil quality, shoot a waterline, suggest QUALIFIED builders, and can even supervise the construction and possibly suggest cost-share programs-----All this service is free, well paid for in taxes.

Look for ponds near your place and talk to the owners. They are often very helpful in answering questions about the area soils and problems to look for.

Beware of some cost share programs and state "free stocking" programs. Some of them can cost you some very valuable landowner rights.

Rainman,

Sound advice. Of which, I have completed each step you mentioned. My problem is that I am assigned out of the area, which means I haven't personally met the soil scientist. I am also not sure the county soil conservationist fully understands my desire nor committment to this project. When the soil scientist & county conservationist went to my farm, I was deployed! Therefore, very little thought and discussion of alternate courses of action occurred during their site survey. I simply had marked and gps'ed my proposed lake site following topo lines and water drainages. I used a 15:1 drainage rule as a minimum standard and picked a sight with nearly 40 acres draining into a 2.5 acre pond. I looked at a site that is down stream 450 yards (roughly) from my neighbor's 1 acre pond that hasn't dropped more than 6 inches during the last two years of drought!

Being a no-fail soldier, I plan to pick up the "perfect pond want one" book and begin researching this problem myself. It may take a little longer, but I will make our dream work! I've accomplished far greater tasks for uncle sam, so playing with dirt, clay and water will be a thrill!

I applied and should be approved for a small cost share construction of an embankment to prevent future erosion and sediment into our local streams, which may cover some of my costs. I am selling some mature timber to clear the pond site and surrounding 10 acres which will also help finance some of this project.

Jim

Welcomb to the forum, AND THANKS FOR THE 20 YEARS OF SERVICE.

Making a good plan is the key to a good pond, and you are doing that. You will do this only once so do not get in to much of a hurry. It sounds like up and down stream there are good ponds da they have better soil or a spring that help keep them full.

Very good start Jim!

When you say, "soil scientist", was it the local NRCS? If it wasn't, please contact them. The NRCS stand for Natural Resources Conservation Service. They were previously known as the USDA---United States Department of Agriculture.

If your neighbors pond holds water that well, you should have good soils nearby to work with.

I am an absentee landowner and MY NRCS guy supervised the entire reconstruction of our leaking pond. FWIW, Otto can tell you about the logging. It is a LOT less work and expense to knock down an entire tree and pile them for cutting than it is to dig up stumps. So logging prior MAY cost you MORE in construction due to time involved and you will STILL have to pile tops and other logging waste.

Ok No Fail Solider. You sound just like me. Here is what Iv learned, first hand. #1. BUILD YOUR HOUSE FIRST! #2 Everything your about to do will endup costing more than you think it will! I just built our dream home in Lebanon TN. But I started the pond at the same time. Big mistake. Like you, Im the type that will not give up. (I guess the military does that to us) Mine leaked. Soil folks said the soil looked good, Well, it wasnt. I had clay hauled in.$$$! Tried bentonite$$$ Soda ash$$$ Did all the things your supposed to do $$$ and it still leaked. Finally, after almost 1.5 yrs of fighting the money pit,I put in a liner. As of this week, its full. 1 ac. aprox 8ft deep and to look at it you would never know it had a liner. So, unless you have been a really lucky guy all your life, build that dream home first and dream pond after. You dont need the headach and worry of a leaking pond while building a home. Being retired you will have plenty of time to work on your money pit after you move in. One other thing, if the pond leaks dont fight it! Put in a liner! Believe me,, its cheaper in the long run and the peace of mind knowing its not gonna leak is worth it!

Now you Sir, have a great point! If I start dumping cash into a 'waterin' hole' and the wife's 'wrap around porch' isn't just like she dreams. LOOK OUT! lol, Thanks for tip.

Jim

rainman they were actualy known as SCS, Soil Conservation Services, which is under the USDA and NRCS is still under the USDA umbrella.