Pond Boss Forums POND CONSTRUCTION Selecting a site 2/3 Acre Pond

Ok, I'm building a pond starting this winter (clearing and digging) on a farm near Springfield. I'll refer to the experts to see what I'm doing right and doing wrong. Thanks for any help with this.

EDIT - Had an initial outline that I was going to go off of, but like most things, once I got started, plans changed, rendering the outline irrelevant...

I am looking to spend very little money on this (who isn't?). A couple questions that I have initially are:

1. Very large healthy trees are in a few spots where the pond will be dug. Can I leave these there? Will they survive in a couple feet of water?

2. The ground is relatively level. Is it necessary to create a dirt/clay barrier between the crop fields and the pond area?

3. I don't believe we'll be able to create an inlet pipe from the creek to the pond to fill as the elevation of the pond will be significantly higher than that of the creek. Keeping the options of pumping or naturally filling in mind, would a spring be beneficial if we were to hit it when digging? I've heard conflicting reports. On one hand, I understand spring water is a very healthy source of water. However, with the creek level being so far less than where the pond will be, would the spring only allow the water level to rise to a certain point, much lower than what I would want?

4. What plants should I consider? I was reading through and saw some great reviews for vetiver grass, but this can't freeze (obviously something that happens a few months every year here). Are there alternatives to this? My cousin is a forestry major and suggested a type of wheat. What types should I look for? Also, of the 9 aquatic plants I detailed in the above outline, which are good to consider and are there any others that I should consider?

5. I've read for a small pond, you can easily create too much structure. How much is too much? I love the ideas I've found throughout this site and think this part of the planning will be one of the most fun but I don't want to overdo it.

6. I was unable to find plans for constructing a floating dock on a budget. Does anyone have anything like this or a link to this?

7. Is there a particular type of sand that I should consider for the small fishing area and what size should I make it, keeping in mind the entire area of the pond is approximately one acre?



This other aerial view is a little further zoomed out and the red circles were other possibilities but the one we're going with the one furthest south.



A lot of questions, I know, but this is only the beginning I'm afraid. I've been doing a ton of research to prepare myself and would love any additional, direct feedback if possible. Oh, and I will certainly be subscribing to the magazine soon.

For starters, I'm betting 8 feet is rather shallow for a Nebraska pond, given 1) lower rainfall and 2) cold Winters. 10 feet is about the minimum suggested for Ohio, with higher rainfall.

From a completely ignorant standpoint, I wonder if any normal pondbuilding operations (the dirt work, mostly) are more difficult to do in Winter becuase of frozen ground. Compacting a core, for instance.

8 foot would be the average and I think that is what is suggested in the NE Pond Management Handbook. Also, the guy I'm having dig it normally digs pools and I'm afraid if I ask him to handle the whole job I'll end up with a just a big smooth bowl. So I'm asking him to just dig it to 8 feet and then I'll go in with the smaller machinery and finish the job.

With the machinery we have it should be ok to dig in the winter. I'm being told it shouldn't be a problem to get through the top frozen layer and proceed.

Hiya Omaha!
Answers in blue.

1. Very large healthy trees are in a few spots where the pond will be dug. Can I leave these there? Will they survive in a couple feet of water?

- The trees will die, but a few of them left in a small bunch makes for some great fish holding structure. They will also be great habitat for birds like purple martins, woodpeckers, owls and wood ducks.

2. The ground is relatively level. Is it necessary to create a dirt/clay barrier between the crop fields and the pond area?

- I'll let the dirt experts answer that one, but no that you mention you will have crop land surrounding the pond, I do want to throw in a suggestion to establish a large grass buffer strip around the entire pond to help cut down on silting and fertilizer and herbicide leaching.

3. I don't believe we'll be able to create an inlet pipe from the creek to the pond to fill as the elevation of the pond will be significantly higher than that of the creek. Keeping the options of pumping or naturally filling in mind, would a spring be beneficial if we were to hit it when digging? I've heard conflicting reports. On one hand, I understand spring water is a very healthy source of water. However, with the creek level being so far less than where the pond will be, would the spring only allow the water level to rise to a certain point, much lower than what I would want?

- Springs are often a major issue. They can act as a faucet and as a drain.

4. What plants should I consider? I was reading through and saw some great reviews for vetiver grass, but this can't freeze (obviously something that happens a few months every year here). Are there alternatives to this? My cousin is a forestry major and suggested a type of wheat. What types should I look for? Also, of the 9 aquatic plants I detailed in the above outline, which are good to consider and are there any others that I should consider?

- Water willow is excellent for shoreline protection and makes excellent hiding areas for fry. Chara, I probably wouldn't worry about adding chara. It'll most likely show up quite quickly on its own. Your two Iris selections are excellent. They are a great marginal. Pickerelweed is another great choice. Ducks absolutely love the stuff though, so keep that in mind. Note: I currently have all of the ones I mentioned in my pond. I am planning to add more water willow and Iris next spring. I may have some extra plants I'd be willing to donate to your project if you are interested. I'm north of Kansas City.

5. I've read for a small pond, you can easily create too much structure. How much is too much? I love the ideas I've found throughout this site and think this part of the planning will be one of the most fun but I don't want to overdo it.

- If I were you I would leave a nice bunch of mature trees in a spot of the pond. That will leave you with some nice initial structure.

6. I was unable to find plans for constructing a floating dock on a budget. Does anyone have anything like this or a link to this?

- There are some plans for using 50 gallon plastic barrels for floats. As long as the floats are positioned correctly, you'll end up with a pretty stable dock. I'll dig up some links later(they are somewhere in my 10k+ list of favorites), and I'll replace this text with the links. EDIT: Here's a link I found: http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070917142345AALAyNt


7. Is there a particular type of sand that I should consider for the small fishing area and what size should I make it, keeping in mind the entire area of the pond is approximately one acre?

- Any particular reason you want sand for a fishing area? Maybe you meant swimming area. At any rate, I would be more apt to put pea rock down, but that's just me.

Omaha, also a topographic map of this area would be great for deciding where to build.

There are plenty of trees in the area, it's pretty heavily wooded. I was more concerned with the size of a couple of these trees. They're just huge. Probably 20 feet around and I was concerned if we just dug around the roots and filled the pond that they'd die and years down the road become a possible hazard for falling branches.



There probably isn't enough room to establish a "large" grass buffer strip so that's why I was asking if a smallish dirt/clay barrier would suffice.



That's what concerns me. Should we hit a spring, what should I look for to determine if it's detrimental or not? And if it is more of a drain than a faucet, can it be "plugged" in any way?



I might have to take you up on that Weiss, thank you. I'll have to keep you in mind come springtime.



So you mean dig around some trees in the pond or just throw some cut ones back in? With the guy I have doing the digging, I don't know how much finesse he's going to use so I don't know how well he'll leave behind some trees for me. I was probably going to keep a few of the uprooted trees and toss them back in for some natural cover.



Any plans would be awesome. I happen to work for a company that can supply me with plenty of plastic drums.



Yeah, I meant swimming area. Got fishing on the brain. Pea Rock. I'll mark that down.

How do I get one of these made up? I've been interested in doing this, but I couldn't figure out how.

Try some of these (in no particular order):
http://terraserver-usa.com/
http://www.topozone.com/ or http://www.topozone.com/states/Nebraska.asp
http://topomaps.usgs.gov/

This is going to depend mainly on your terrain... If you have to dig most of your pond or if you can simply dam it and flood. I have over an acre of flooded "forest" in my pond for example.



I'm willing to bet Otto will be along pretty soon to throw in some advice on this. He's the expert on this stuff. I will say that you'll want to take measure to prevent silting from the cropland (to the extent it can be accomplished).



Again, a great question for Otto.



I don't believe you could dig around the trees and expect them to remain standing for too long. Your idea of using some of the uprooted trees for structure is a good one. However, if you end up being able to flood some of the tree area, without digging, to a depth of 6-10 feet at expected full pool, some of those trees, in my opnion, would be wisely left in the pond.



According to my research, one 55 gallon drum displaces roughly 450 pounds of water. Here is the one link I could find. I'll post more if I can dig them up. I've been thinking about building one of these myself. http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070917142345AALAyNt



Pea rock will give you a similar look, and it's friendly on your feet. I think you'll have less issue with it washing away versus sand. I plan to add a small "beach" area to my pond next year, and pea rock is the plan. I also intend to dig a small ledge, put down some heavy duty landscape fabric (or other very durable material... maybe EPDM) and then fill with pea rock. My hope is that this will help to keep the pea rock where I want it and reduce weed issues.

This is the best I could find. Nothing could get close enough.

Omaha, I would consider 500 BG, but what size (1-3 or 3-5"), and if you're going to stock channel cat AND bass in the same year, I would put 10-12 lbs of FHM with the BG in May to give you a good forage base. You'll need it for the CC and LMB if you stock them the same year. They will gobble up your BG spawn in no time. I would consider stocking the BG & FHM in May, and save the LMB till next spring/early summer, and then the CC in the fall. You should get 2-3 FHM spawns by then.

Thing I haven't read (or just missed it) is what do you want your pond to be? A great BG pond, a LMB pond, what? IMO you need to decide on one or the other as your predominate strategy, and stock accordingly.

I have a 1A pond in Mo., and stocked it with 250 3-5" BG, 100 1-3" RES, and 15 lbs of FHM this fall. I'll stock about 20 5-7" LMB NEXT late summer/fall. Additionally, we caught and put in about 30 adult 7-9" BG/RES this past summer hoping it would jump start the breeding. Three weeks later we had fry swimming around some straw bales and root wads. The jump start on breeding must have worked or the adult BG still had eggs. My pond is geared to be a BG pond, with LMB as a bonus occasionally. No CC planned to date. That may change later. Just my .02. Good luck with your project. It will become your passion. Trust me!!!!

My NE Pond Management Handbook discourages stocking FHM.





Interested in making it primarily a LMB pond.



Oh, I don't have to trust you, I realize this already and I haven't even broken any ground yet.

I've never actually used this expression before, but that is horse-and-buggy thinking. Just plain wrong.

Agreed Theo. This was written, I assume, by a State Biologist. However, I have seldom found a consensus from any of them.

I have no idea why they would be wrong for bass but OK for catfish ponds.

So in your guys' experience and research, FHM are just fine in a pond that aims to make LMB, CC, and BG its primary fish, in that order? I take it the FHM help with the growth of the smaller bass?

They are your "jump start" for a new pond. They are slow swimming, small, hardy, prolific fish that inhabit shallow water. Stock them with your initial BG forage stocking. Within the first year they should disappear and the BG take over as the primary groceries for your predators. That is OK. They will have served their purpose.

"Just Fine" might be a little mild. I believe "don't start without them".

They help with the kick off of all of the fish. I've seen 8 to 10 inch catfish chasing schools of FHM across a pond. And, the baby BG eat them.

I would wait a year before stocking the LMB. Make sure you have a solid forage base. Everything is dependent on a good source of renewable protein and proper water quality.

Sounds good. I'm sure the hatchery we're going through will likely suggest this as well if this is common practice.

Do I still stock 400-500 BG if I'm also stocking FHM and how much FHM do I stock?

Is there a computer program out there where I can draw up plans for the pond, like dimensions, depth, structure, etc.? Has anyone used anything like this or what have you used, if anything?

Just to be aware, a lot of the hatcheries out there will try to sell you as much fish as they can, but that usually contradicts what you see here on Pond Boss.

As an example, you will hear here that you should get your forage base established before adding predators, and that wait time can be 6 months to (1) year. This is opposed to what you hear at some hatcheries who say stock everything at the same time.

Oh, and watch out for that guy, Bruce Condello. He's from Nebraska.

Omaha:

400 fingerling BG, 100 fingerling RES, 10 lbs of FHM.

Wait a year and add fingerling LMB (100 for more all-around pond, 75 if you really want to maximize LMB growth) and 50 small CC.

You could handle more CC, but they are the cheapest fish to restock in the larger sizes needed for an established pond. To prevent the CC from getting ahead of you and competing too much with the bass, I recommend going light on their initial stocking.

Yeah, I've read a few of the horror stories about the hatcheries suggesting things that don't work. I've called and introduced myself to the guy I think we're going to go with and got a good "vibe".

Yeah, I've been hearing about this Bruce guy, but I'm thinking he's an urban legend or something because I haven't seen him yet.

Thanks again Theo. Wait, what's RES?

Red Eared Sunfish

Becareful of their introduction however and I highly suggest that you read this thread before considering them. Red Eared Sunfish Thread