Pond Boss Forums STOCKING A NEW POND Types of fish to choose Yellow cat!

My favorite fish to catch in the wild is yellow cat. They are very hard to catch on a rod and reel but if you can find the Colorado river in central Texas on a rise after a good rain you can fish with night-crawlers. I have caught up to 35# flathead in this manner. If you ever get a chance to fight a 35# yellow cat in a rampaging river it is the closest to Tarpon fishing you will ever get in central Texas. The bite is never in question as it will almost pull the rod out of your hand, you set the hook and loose 200' of line to the first run. Then he will hit the top of the water for the first time and jump completely above the water thrashing and fighting. He will then use the rushing water to zip out another 200' of line. 40 minutes later with your arms trembling you are rewarded with the best eating fish in all the world. I once had a fish fry where I cooked 50# of yellow cat and 50# of channel cat. The yellow cat was all gone before the channel cat was 20% gone. There is no comparison between the two as far as eating. I have caught the yellow cat with patient fishing with some live perch or goldfish on a rod and reel in lakes. I have been doing a lot of reading here and was wondering with the introduction of tilapia in pond keeping, if the ability to raise greater numbers of aggressive large predator fish like the yellow cat is not more feasible than it once was? I was thinking of overwintering tilapia in a heated aquarium and restock in late spring every year. Anyone have experience with yellow cat in a pond?

PondsForFun,

Great handle!

I too have enjoyed battles with the flathead catfish. The Trinity River below Lake Livingston dam has one of the largest populations of huge flatheads that exist anywhere...we have caught them up to 65 pounds on live BG and have heard reports of others caught much larger. If you really love catching these great fish, you should try the Trinity River during Dec/Jan for some great fishing.

You made a very interesting observation regarding Tilapia and flatheads in ponds. Most everyone says that flatheads will outcompete and ultimately destroy a pond fishery...but Tilapia could make a difference. If you have been reading the Forum you have seen the terrific results many have gotten with Tilapia. I have experienced tremendous results myself. Their reproduction rates are just amazing.

Try it as an experiment and post the results here...if you fail, everyone will still learn something and if you succeed, a new pond fishery may develop. Also, I would be most interested in your approach to overwintering in an aquarium...what kind of set up you use and how it works. Looking forward to reading your posts. Thanks.

Welcome to the forum. How big of a pond do you have in mind ? A few big flatheads in a small pond can destroy your forage base. If you have them along with a strong forage base of BG and tilapia it might work well. If your pond will have winter dye off of tilapia then you will have to have another food source for them from die off until the tilapia are big the next summer.

Meadowlark- I am thinking very seriously about trying the experiment. I think these fish have gotten a bad wrap. I am not a bass enthusiast although I have fished a lot for bass. I once caught a 10.5 lb bass on a jig and pig and numerous 8-9 lbs in my life. The most fun I ever had fishing for them was once I found them hitting top water poppers and had a field day with the hogs inhaling the bait and sounding like some ungodly vacuum machine snatching half the lake in a single gulp. Now I an older and I like to throw out a couple of lines from a comfortable chair, open a beer or soda and sit back contemplating the beauty of the woods and water and waiting for a strike. I have a 1.3 acre pond I would like to try 50 yellows 50 blue and 300 CC and see what happens. I will supply tilapia in the warm months and BG year round. I also plan on some HSB to fill the remaining niche. I will feed the CC and HSB.
I got the idea of overwintering from the tilapia thread:
http://www.pondboss.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=5;t=000269;p=11
Eastland was the poster and I was surprised there was not more talk about it because this makes it much easier and more economical to restock every spring. I have had some experience with aquariums and even had some tilapia years ago in one.

Ewest- we shall see if they destroy my forage base.

Does anyone know where I can get yellowcat for stocking?

Ponds :

I think you can raise cats in a small pond if you keep a strong forage base of BG and tilapia and don't push the pond's carrying capacity. Will the numbers of cats above be small stockers or larger fish? You may want to do a search on carrying capacity to see how many pounds of fish a pond can support per acre.

A friend who is a fisheries science professor managed an isolated (a few miles from campus on univ. lands) BG pond (10 acres I think) that the university used soley to raise BG for stocking other ponds and for classes to seine and do studies. After a few years the students reported that it was getting harder to catch BG and seining results were falling. He checked it out and did not find an answer. They drained the pond and found a low number of BG and a couple dozen larger flathead cats . One over 60 lbs. a few at 25-30lbs and the rest from 5-15 lbs. Someone had been adding FH cats and using the university pond as their own FH cat growout pond. They never found out who or how many had been put in -grown out and caught and removed but he was serious in his warning about FH cats being serous predators.

ewest-The worst that could happen, I would have to catch them all and eat them. I am a glutton for that kind of punishment. I may be completely wrong, I have been before, but I don't see how a flathead could eat any more pound for pound than any other fish. They are relatively lazy fish with very poor eyesight. They rest in the day and move along at night very slow until they sense their prey with their super sensitive lateral line and attack with speed and accuracy. They don't really care what type of fish they eat and the size is only limited in what they can swallow. I used to know a state hatchery in San Angelo that had a breeding program but can find nothing on the web. Any help to locate stocker flatheads would be appreciated. I guess I could order them overnight from the place in Ohio.

PondsForFun,

I really think the Tilapia are the key, without them, you don't stand a chance, with them, maybe...that's just my opinion.

If you were willing to drive to Livingston, I believe I could get you some flatheads from the Trinity river. I assume that is legal. However, I've never seen one smaller than around 5-10 pounds. They must exist and if you are interested, I know some guys who can find them.

Ponds :

You are right that it would be fun to catch a few. I think you can do what you planned if you have and maintain a good forage base. There are a number of ways to do that but it will take some effort. But that is what makes it fun to try. BG and tilapia combined is a good way in my opinion. I bet the cats will feast on the tilapia when it gets cold. I don't know about the numbers for your pond as that will be a function of carrying capacity and water quality. I will try to locate a seller. I will post if I find one and good luck with your pond.

Try this link/source - you can email or call.

http://www.sepond.com/CHC.html

Ponds, the "generally accepted" formula for ponds is 100 lbs. of predators per acre if you want a healthy, well balanced pond. As Ewest is saying, that assumes a strong forage base. It's up to you but, with those stocking numbers, I think you will wind up with a bunch of starving fish.

Meadowlark and ewest- I will take you up on that offer if I can't find a source. I would want to establish mt tilapia, BG, HSB and CC and get them to a larger size before I introduced 5#+ flathead. I'm sure to catch them in the wild would see some variance 2-15# I would try 30 at that size if I could get them. I could set some trot-lines here and catch a few. It would sure be nice to introduce them at 4-8" and get growth rates and catch them at different sizes and see what they were eating. Maybe we could establish exactly what size they make a impact on the pond. With tilapia using the vegetative forage, BG being aggressive on the insects, minnows and feed, CC using the feed, and HSB on the feed and smaller forage fish; It would seem the whole 2-10" forage base would be reserved for the yellowcat. The runoff comes from coastal hay fields and should contain a lot of fertilizer in the spring. I am willing to fertilize if necessary. It is a long slow process to get to larger fish but I am willing to try. Thank you for your help and I will keep you informed of my progress. Keep your eyes open for the right size flatheads to stock.

Dave- You have rained on my parade! LOL! Well I could reduce the # of CC and have a soup kitchen for the starving HSB! Thank you for providing more reasonable numbers. It is hard to tell what the right numbers are. I saw one hatchery that suggested 1000 CC to the acre and that got my thinking up a little high. Cooler heads will prevail!

Happy new year every body!! I am STILL trying to get my lake to fill up after two years But I stocked with blues about 150 I think and 2 ONLY 2 flatheads from the river. I have about 250 channels. Of course I have Redear Native bluegill Coppernose blue gill and Redbrest sunfish and I think 500 F1 bass from Greg grimes...I have not been to my lake in about 6 months, but this mix has been there for bout a year now..It would be intresting to see how this mix is doing....

big_pond,


If you hadn't responded to this post on flatheads, we were thinking of sending out the Georgia National Guard to look for you.

Welcome back.

I'm no expert, but around here, just about every pond has a few flatheads in it. I've seen some dandies up to 35 lbs or so caught from ponds, and have never seen a pond "decimated" by them. I put 2 in my first ponds and plan the same for the second. They are 1.75 and 1.1 acres (or will be) if they ever fill up. They won't spawn and take over. Quite a thrill to catch.

Hey Big_Pond, how could you stay away from your pond for so long? You may be raising a healthy crop of ducks n heron. Well my pond is only 1 minute by golf cart and 2 minutes on foot! I hope your pond has no ducks and your blues are all fish!

Matt- you know anything about that place in Ohio that sells fingerling yellows? I wonder if they would send me some overnight Fedex. when I am ready for them.

Big Pond, Nice to see you back and posting. Where did you get the blues?

Ponds :

Did you check the link above as a source for all 3 cats. If they don't have them they can tell you where to get them. Link below.

http://www.sepond.com/CHC.html

ewest- yes I have sent them a email. I await their reply with baited hook and breath!

Ponds :

Great. If that does not work then repost and we can look for some more sources.

PF2, may I make a suggestion.

If you really want to get lined up with some cats of choice, pick up the phone and give those SE Pond people a call.

Not only will it get you an answer quickly, it will also demonstrate your level of intent.

Sunil- If I needed them tomorrow I would fly out and pick them up. As it goes I don't need them until late spring or if this central Texas drought does not end maybe 2007. Someone in another thread was worried about tornado watches, we have fire tornadoes on the ground! It has been 4 months 2 weeks since I have seen a drop of rain! It was 85 degrees here today, in January. :p I am only dreaming of stocking at this time. Nothing real happening here until the weather gets real! But I can dream can't I, Thats all I can do now!

PF2. Clear on that. I understand the time frame now. I'd still call though only because some of the fish you are seeking don't seem to be readily available, and the supplier may need more time than usual to fill an order.

Hopefully you guys will get a gusher or two real soon.

No answer yet from Southeastern Pond Management. They may have thought the email was a joke. If you look closely at their web site these guys are Bass enthusiest and here is what they have to say about catfish:

The channel catfish has traditionally been the species most commonly stocked into ponds. The reasons for the popularity of channel catfish are varied and many. They are easy to catch, attain large sizes, readily train to artificial feed, adapt well to almost any environment, and make fine table fare. Also, catfish generally do not reproduce well in ponds that contain bass, so they are not likely to overpopulate; provided they are stocked at a low density.

"The common belief about catfish is that ol' Mr. Whiskers scanvenges off the pond's bottom and will eat just about anything that he can swallow. While it is true that catfish are not picky eaters, most pond owners do not realize how they compete with bass and bluegill for food. Catfish will eat things that are dead and alive, including minnows and insects. They also can be voracious around automated fish feeders. If you aggressively harvest catfish, they aren't terrible additions to your pond's fish community. The problem with catfish is that they get quite large. And their appetites grow right along with them. So they keep growing, often at the expense of bass and bluegill. Our phlosophy on catfish is this: If you really like to fish for catfish, stock them in low numbers and harvest them before they get too big."

Their web site says nothing about stocking any kind of catfish. Here is the first line on their website: "Few things in life are as exciting as landing a trophy bass or bluegill from your own pond!"

I don't get the feeling from reading the entire web site that they would do any more than turn their nose up at a catfish pond. I may be wrong, I have been before, once or several uh-- hundred times ! Well we have a 20% chance of rain on Monday and Tuesday. If that does not pan out my stocking plans are very close to going down the tubes anyway! :p

Ponds :

I know the people and they are very serious pond managers and a good company. I will call them on Monday if you would like and ask about your situation. Let me know. Send me a PM with a name and phone # and I will make contact and tell you who to call.

ewest- I have found a great website:
http://www.aquafind.com/

They list two suppliers in the US of fingerling Flatheads:
http://www.aquafind.com/producer/producer.php?country=United+States&speciesid=0000002518#

I plan on sending them both a email and see what are the chances for overnight shipment. Thank you so much for your help and what a great website!! I plan on adding this one to my favorites.
Watch out for the pirates N pond-brains