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#136400 - 10/19/08 07:38 AM Re: Human habitat; dreaming out loud [Re: Brettski]
Brettski Offline
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Registered: 10/07/05
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Loc: Illinois
Pre-fab roof trusses...right?
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#136403 - 10/19/08 08:38 AM Re: Human habitat; dreaming out loud [Re: Brettski]
RobA Offline
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Registered: 04/28/04
Posts: 705
Loc: SE Pennsylvania
 Originally Posted By: Brettski
Pre-fab roof trusses...right?

Yes. I think they are called attic trusses. The loft flooring was laid right on the trusses.

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#136407 - 10/19/08 09:22 AM Re: Human habitat; dreaming out loud [Re: RobA]
jeffhasapond Offline
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Looks great Rob. Interesting information as to what the Amish builders will and won't use for tools.
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"My mind is a raging torrent, flooded with rivulets of thought cascading into a waterfall of creative alternatives."
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#136422 - 10/19/08 12:14 PM Re: Human habitat; dreaming out loud [Re: jeffhasapond]
bbjr Offline
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Registered: 10/10/07
Posts: 365
Loc: NW Indiana
RobA,
Care to share with us the method used for the copper patina?
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-Chris
1 acre pond
Currently managing:
FHM, GSH, GSF, BG, PS, RES, LES, YP, SMB, LMB, HSB, RBT, WE, CC, FHC, and Grass Shrimp

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#136452 - 10/19/08 08:53 PM Re: Human habitat; dreaming out loud [Re: bbjr]
RobA Offline
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Registered: 04/28/04
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Loc: SE Pennsylvania
 Originally Posted By: bbjr
RobA,
Care to share with us the method used for the copper patina?

There are loads of "recipes" out there of which most don't really work. I searched on the internet and found a solution sold by Jax Chemical Co. that was supposed to make it easy ( link to Jax ). It wasn't so easy. Any green patina it formed was flaky and most of it washed off. I thought that scuffing the surface would help it bond to the copper so I sanded it. Didn't do much good. Besides, sanding the horse wetahervane wasn't easy. So I called my nephew who is a chemist. He suggested chemically etching the copper using acetic acid (same acid in vinegar). He got me 'glacial' acetic acid which is almost pure. He cautioned me that it is flammable, an eye/nose irritant and could be smelled 100+ yards away - literally. He was not kidding!!! This stuff stinks like hell, and the vapors can choke you. I brushed it on, choked, coughed and wipe the tears from my eyes then hose it off. It did work much better but some of the green still washed off when I rinsed the Jax solution off.

In my area it would take 20 years or more for the copper to turn green so I figure I got a 15 year jump on it.

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#136467 - 10/19/08 10:21 PM Re: Human habitat; dreaming out loud [Re: RobA]
Victor Offline
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Registered: 07/05/06
Posts: 240
Loc: Carlisle, Pennsylvania
DIED:

Here are some pics with stamped concrete. We have some out back that has been there for about eight years, and some out front for two. Two different patterns, two different colors, love them both. You can see what a difference it makes when you seal something that takes all of the sun abuse.

We just finished stripping and re-staining our deck. It is about 1000 square feet worth. That job took about three days of solid work. I guess both finishes require maintenance, but I would probably lean toward the concrete in your application. Your progress looks great!







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#136476 - 10/19/08 11:15 PM Re: Human habitat; dreaming out loud [Re: Victor]
james holt Offline
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Registered: 03/30/04
Posts: 1714
Loc: gainesville texas
very nice. What is involved in redoing the finish?

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#136477 - 10/19/08 11:17 PM Re: Human habitat; dreaming out loud [Re: james holt]
james holt Offline
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Registered: 03/30/04
Posts: 1714
Loc: gainesville texas
Is that flowing water in the picture? It should be dammed up immediatly. Where is Otto?

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#136481 - 10/20/08 07:12 AM Re: Human habitat; dreaming out loud [Re: james holt]
Theo Gallus Offline
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Registered: 05/14/04
Posts: 12389
Loc: Central Ohio
Excellent point, James.

I was thinking how amazing it is that stamped concrete can be made to so closely resemble Huskies. ;\)
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"Live like you'll die tomorrow, but manage your grass like you'll live forever."
-S. M. Stirling

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#136482 - 10/20/08 07:12 AM Re: Human habitat; dreaming out loud [Re: RobA]
bbjr Offline
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Registered: 10/10/07
Posts: 365
Loc: NW Indiana
 Originally Posted By: RobA
 Originally Posted By: bbjr
RobA,
Care to share with us the method used for the copper patina?

There are loads of "recipes" out there of which most don't really work. I searched on the internet and found a solution sold by Jax Chemical Co. that was supposed to make it easy ( link to Jax ). It wasn't so easy. Any green patina it formed was flaky and most of it washed off. I thought that scuffing the surface would help it bond to the copper so I sanded it. Didn't do much good. Besides, sanding the horse wetahervane wasn't easy. So I called my nephew who is a chemist. He suggested chemically etching the copper using acetic acid (same acid in vinegar). He got me 'glacial' acetic acid which is almost pure. He cautioned me that it is flammable, an eye/nose irritant and could be smelled 100+ yards away - literally. He was not kidding!!! This stuff stinks like hell, and the vapors can choke you. I brushed it on, choked, coughed and wipe the tears from my eyes then hose it off. It did work much better but some of the green still washed off when I rinsed the Jax solution off.

In my area it would take 20 years or more for the copper to turn green so I figure I got a 15 year jump on it.


Thanks Rob. I am going to need to do this for a some items on my next home, when we build it. By any chance, did you try to use muriatic acid? The reason I ask, is that I notice the copper ground wires in electrical boxes have massive amounts of patina within a couple weeks of the masonry guys power washing the brick on houses.
_________________________
-Chris
1 acre pond
Currently managing:
FHM, GSH, GSF, BG, PS, RES, LES, YP, SMB, LMB, HSB, RBT, WE, CC, FHC, and Grass Shrimp

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#136496 - 10/20/08 09:36 AM Re: Human habitat; dreaming out loud [Re: bbjr]
david u Offline
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Registered: 11/28/06
Posts: 359
Loc: denton & montague counties
RobA, Nice job on the patina look..will file that one for our next house! The difference in construction techniques thru-out the country are amazing. You all have to bury pipe half way to China, whereas here in TX there is no frost line. We use construction workers from south of here, as there are no Amish that I know of.. and if we set posts like that on your barn in the ground, the termites would have them eaten off in 2 years.. It's fun seeing how folks from different areas build stuff!!
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#136555 - 10/20/08 07:29 PM Re: Human habitat; dreaming out loud [Re: bbjr]
RobA Offline
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Registered: 04/28/04
Posts: 705
Loc: SE Pennsylvania
 Originally Posted By: bbjr
By any chance, did you try to use muriatic acid? The reason I ask, is that I notice the copper ground wires in electrical boxes have massive amounts of patina within a couple weeks of the masonry guys power washing the brick on houses.

I did not try muriatic acid. If I recall there were 2 reasons my nephew suggested the acetic acid. One was to etch the copper. The other reason was that it is also a chemical used in a reaction to create copper acetate - 1 type of "green copper". He thought with a little luck it would etch the copper a well as assist in turning it green. I did notice a slight, barely noticable green haze on the copper but nothing like the end result.

I'm sure the muriatic acid would etch the copper but I'm not sure how much. I would test it out on a piece of scrap just to make sure it doesn't eat away too much.

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#136560 - 10/20/08 07:57 PM Re: Human habitat; dreaming out loud [Re: RobA]
Victor Offline
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Registered: 07/05/06
Posts: 240
Loc: Carlisle, Pennsylvania
James: The finish gets a coat of polyurethane (for lack of a better term) with a long napp roller and a brush. It takes about two hours to do the back patio. The front has not had to be re-finished yet. It gets a water-based finish.

That is water running without any dam. Give me time. I am still working on it. This mountain is not conducive to holding water. Not giving up yet, though.

Theo: If someone doesn't stop my wife, there will be more Huskies around here than stampin's.

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#136626 - 10/21/08 11:25 AM Re: Human habitat; dreaming out loud [Re: Victor]
Ryan Freeze Offline
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Registered: 10/31/05
Posts: 1285
Loc: Southwest Ohio
Victor, have you noticed the stamped concrete being extremely slippery once sealed?
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"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." Stephen W. Hawking

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#136628 - 10/21/08 11:33 AM Re: Human habitat; dreaming out loud [Re: Victor]
Theo Gallus Offline
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Registered: 05/14/04
Posts: 12389
Loc: Central Ohio
 Originally Posted By: Victor
Theo: If someone doesn't stop my wife, there will be more Huskies around here than stampin's.

We used to have 10 Huskies living next door. They howled a lot, but their pen was 300 yards from our house (and our big horse barn is in between to help block the sound) so you couldn't hear them from inside it.

I will admit to sometimes howling first to get them all started.
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"Live like you'll die tomorrow, but manage your grass like you'll live forever."
-S. M. Stirling

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#136867 - 10/23/08 06:43 PM Re: Human habitat; dreaming out loud [Re: Theo Gallus]
Victor Offline
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Registered: 07/05/06
Posts: 240
Loc: Carlisle, Pennsylvania
Yes, once freshly sealed and wet it is more slippery than un-sealed or regular concrete.

As for the dogs, Theo, they rarely howl or bark. Probably because we don't have NEIGHBORS howling at them. ;\)

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#136873 - 10/23/08 08:22 PM Re: Human habitat; dreaming out loud [Re: Victor]
Brettski Offline
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Registered: 10/07/05
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Loc: Illinois
...ask Fish Wife how long it took to paper train him
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#136884 - 10/23/08 09:38 PM Re: Human habitat; dreaming out loud [Re: Brettski]
Theo Gallus Offline
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Registered: 05/14/04
Posts: 12389
Loc: Central Ohio
Hey, Bski - she hasn't given up trying yet.
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"Live like you'll die tomorrow, but manage your grass like you'll live forever."
-S. M. Stirling

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#136930 - 10/24/08 10:19 AM Re: Human habitat; dreaming out loud [Re: Ryan Freeze]
jeffhasapond Offline
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Registered: 07/28/06
Posts: 7613
Loc: Pond in No CA, Me in So CA
 Originally Posted By: Ryan Freeze
Victor, have you noticed the stamped concrete being extremely slippery once sealed?


Ryan there is an anti-slip additive that you can add to sealant. Lowes sells one called Shark Bite. I highly recommend that you add an anti-slip additive to any area of sealed concrete that gets wet a lot. We didn't add any to ours and it gets very slippery.
_________________________
JHAP
~~~~~~~~~~

"My mind is a raging torrent, flooded with rivulets of thought cascading into a waterfall of creative alternatives."
...Hedley Lamarr (that's Hedley not Hedy)

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#136934 - 10/24/08 10:38 AM Re: Human habitat; dreaming out loud [Re: jeffhasapond]
dave in el dorado ca Offline
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Registered: 04/26/06
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we'll be doing a stamped concrete slab for a sunroom. i'll make sure and take some pics.
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#137017 - 10/24/08 10:48 PM Re: Human habitat; dreaming out loud [Re: dave in el dorado ca]
Victor Offline
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Registered: 07/05/06
Posts: 240
Loc: Carlisle, Pennsylvania
DIED, not sure what kind of heat you have for your place, but my uncle did a sunroom and placed hot water piping in the slab (he has hot water heat). It keeps that slab and room very nice in the winter.

People here in PondBoss sure can spend your money, can't we?

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#137547 - 10/29/08 07:04 PM Re: Human habitat; dreaming out loud [Re: Victor]
ceadmin Offline
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Registered: 07/13/05
Posts: 202
Loc: Iowa
Are you sure those worker were Amish and not Mennonite? Because Amish normally shy away from all tech (power tools, cars, etc.) where Mennonites will embrace it.

ETA: Beautiful Barn/Cabin/Observation Post by the way!

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#137549 - 10/29/08 07:36 PM Re: Human habitat; dreaming out loud [Re: ceadmin]
RobA Offline
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Registered: 04/28/04
Posts: 705
Loc: SE Pennsylvania
 Originally Posted By: ceadmin
Are you sure those worker were Amish and not Mennonite? Because Amish normally shy away from all tech (power tools, cars, etc.) where Mennonites will embrace it.

They're Amish. As was the deck builder who built my dock and the cupola builder. They all used air compressors to power their tools. They all used drivers but don't own the cars/trucks. There are a lot more Amish near me than Mennonites. I believe they justify some use of technology if it helps them with their business which, in turn, helps the Amish community.

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#137556 - 10/29/08 09:09 PM Re: Human habitat; dreaming out loud [Re: RobA]
Brettski Offline
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There are differing orders within the Amish community. Some sects are more leniant toward use of "modern" equipment and technologies. These communities will vary, often by regions in the US. In essence, some regions are stricter than others. Within those communities that have specific restrictions, allowances can be made when the modern function is vital to work and/or survival.
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#137558 - 10/29/08 09:12 PM Re: Human habitat; dreaming out loud [Re: Brettski]
dave in el dorado ca Offline
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anybody ever done a waterproof deck over living space (aka roof top deck?) and what did you use, and how has it held up?


Edited by dave in el dorado ca (10/29/08 09:12 PM)
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