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#135917 - 10/14/08 03:54 PM Pond Salinity
KCH Offline
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Registered: 10/14/08
Posts: 11
Loc: TEXAS
I have recently built a 4 acre lake west of Ft.Worth. The salinity of this pond is running around 4500 total dissolved salts. Is this too high to have a decent bream - largermouth bass environment? Should I go just to Hybrid Stripers and baitfish? This is my first post and I would appreciate any comments or help.

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#135918 - 10/14/08 03:58 PM Re: Pond Salinity [Re: KCH]
LOVELACE LAKE Offline
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Registered: 07/09/08
Posts: 120
Loc: Trenton, TX
welcome to the forum KCH. A well seasoned pro will be here shortly.

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#135925 - 10/14/08 05:25 PM Re: Pond Salinity [Re: LOVELACE LAKE]
Bob Lusk Offline
Editor, Pond Boss Magazine
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Registered: 04/10/02
Posts: 3076
Loc: Whitesboro, Texas
Greetings!
Welcome to the Pond Boss Forum.
4500 ppm total dissolved salts won't affect fish growth, but it will affect reproduction. Freshwater fish eggs lose their viability as salt rises above 4000 ppm.
Salt content in that concentration is actually beneficial in that it is enough to prevent most diseases and parasites which commonly affect fish.
I think the biggest question that needs to be answered is, "Will the salinity stay that high?" If you have filled the pond from a well and then you get some runoff from rainfall, the salinity will fluctuate. Salinity at 4500 ppm is not common west of Fort Worth, unless it comes from groundwater.
If your salinity will stay in the 4500 ppm range, then I would think mostly of hybrid stripers and feed them.
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#135929 - 10/14/08 05:52 PM Re: Pond Salinity [Re: Bob Lusk]
ewest Offline
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What about a put and take fishery with HSB , HBG and CC. Put them in , feed them and catch them out . When numbers get low add some more.
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#135931 - 10/14/08 06:04 PM Re: Pond Salinity [Re: ewest]
Sunil Offline
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Wouldn't there be some benefits to LMB that could not overpopulate due to the salinity, or is the other issue that there would be no regenerating forage base?
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#135933 - 10/14/08 06:48 PM Re: Pond Salinity [Re: Sunil]
Bob Lusk Offline
Editor, Pond Boss Magazine
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Registered: 04/10/02
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Loc: Whitesboro, Texas
Eric, that's a great idea and certainly viable. My biggest question revolves around the consistentency of the salinity.

Sunil, there would be some benefits to LMB (largemouth bass) but the downside is that the forage fish they eat have the same fate...unable to reproduce, therefore being rendered ineffective.
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#135935 - 10/14/08 07:30 PM Re: Pond Salinity [Re: Bob Lusk]
Bruce Condello Offline
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My salinity is around 5,500 consistently.

I've found that Bob Lusk is exactly right in all regards. Great for hybrid striped bass, and preventing diseases, etc.

One thing I might add is that I believe redear sunfish are one of our very most saline tolerant species. They also grow big and fight hard. I'd strongly consider getting some shellcrackers!
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#135939 - 10/14/08 08:09 PM Re: Pond Salinity [Re: Bruce Condello]
DJT Offline
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Registered: 02/25/07
Posts: 343
Loc: SW Illinois
[quote=Bruce Condello]My salinity is around 5,500 consistently.

Are your fish able to reproduce?
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#135942 - 10/14/08 08:14 PM Re: Pond Salinity [Re: DJT]
Bruce Condello Offline
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 Originally Posted By: DJT
...Are you...able to reproduce?


Yes, I have two kids.


Edited by Bruce Condello (10/14/08 08:15 PM)
Edit Reason: needed to be more of a smart-ass.
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#135953 - 10/14/08 08:45 PM Re: Pond Salinity [Re: Bruce Condello]
DJT Offline
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Registered: 02/25/07
Posts: 343
Loc: SW Illinois
 Originally Posted By: Bruce Condello
 Originally Posted By: DJT
...Are you...able to reproduce?


Yes, I have two kids.



That just means you are producing viable tadpoles...not fish eggs!


Edited by DJT (10/14/08 08:48 PM)
Edit Reason: even more of a smart @$$
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#135954 - 10/14/08 08:47 PM Re: Pond Salinity [Re: DJT]
Bruce Condello Offline
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Are you calling me a frog? \:\(


By the way, I do have reproduction of bluegill in the high salinity pond. It just seems to be really limited. I can't be certain how limited, but I'd guess it's maybe only 10% of what it could be. The fish that survive do really well.
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#135956 - 10/14/08 08:54 PM Re: Pond Salinity [Re: Bruce Condello]
Cecil Baird1 Offline
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Registered: 08/08/02
Posts: 20043
Loc: Northeastern Indiana
 Originally Posted By: Bruce Condello
Are you calling me a frog? \:\(


By the way, I do have reproduction of bluegill in the high salinity pond. It just seems to be really limited. I can't be certain how limited, but I'd guess it's maybe only 10% of what it could be. The fish that survive do really well.


Does the Catholic church know your pond is practicing birth control?


Edited by Cecil Baird1 (10/14/08 11:14 PM)
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#135959 - 10/14/08 09:23 PM Re: Pond Salinity [Re: Cecil Baird1]
ewest Offline
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Registered: 03/08/05
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Loc: Miss.
Info for thought.


Water salinity
Fresh water - Brackish water --- Saline water
< 0.05 % ------ 0.05 - 3 % --------- 3 - 5 %
< 500 ppm --- 500 - 30 000 ppm -- 30 000 - 50 000 ppm

Trans. Am. Fish. Soc., 107(5): 713-719, 1978

Copyright by the American Fisheries Society, 1978

A Discriminant Functions Analysis of Sunfish (Lepomis)

Food Habits and Feeding Niche Segregation in the

Lake Pontchartrain, Louisiana Estuary

WAYNE J. DESSELLE, MICHAEL A. POIRRIER, JAMES S. ROGERS, AND

ROBERT C. CASHNER



The Centrarchidae is a primary freshwater

fish family indigenous to North America.

Several species, however, have been reported

to live and reproduce in salinities

ranging from 1 to 17.4%o (Bailey et al. 1954;

Louisiana Wild Life and Fisheries Commission

1971; Swingle 1971). In the oligohaline

Lake Pontchartrain estuary four species of

sunfish, bluegill (Lepomis macrochirus), redear

sunfish (L. microlophus), spotted sunfish

(L. punctatus), and warmouth (L. gulosus)

have established populations.

Lake Pontchartrain is a low-salinity estuary

located in southeastern Louisiana. It

was once an arm of the Gulf of Mexico that

became isolated by dcltaic action of the

Mississippi (Saucier 1963). It has a surface

area of 1,645 km 2, a maximum natural depth

of 5.5 m, and an average depth of 3.4 m

(Darnell 1958).

Fish were sampled from three stations.

Station 1 was located in southeastern Lake

Pontchartrain and included samples from

Irish Bayou and South Point. Stations 2 and

3 were located in northern Lake Pontchartrain

with Station 2 near Bayou Lacombc

and Station 3 near the Tchefuncte River. All

sampling areas contained rooted aquatic

vegetation including Vallisneria, Ruppia,

Najas, and Ceratophyllum, and stumps,

tree roots, and logs. Salinity was higher at

Station 1 (mean 4.1%d and lower at stations

2 and 3 (means, 2.7 and 1.6%o, respectively).



Edited by ewest (10/14/08 09:28 PM)
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#135989 - 10/14/08 11:08 PM Re: Pond Salinity [Re: ewest]
burgermeister Offline
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Registered: 02/27/05
Posts: 4025
Loc: Houston, Tx.
I wonder if these ppm ranges are based on weight or volume?
Sorry; it's an engineering thang.

Hmmmm! Could salt water be poured over a spawning area to reduce the hatch? I also wonder what the critical exposure time would be?
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#135996 - 10/15/08 02:59 AM Re: Pond Salinity [Re: KCH]
KCH Offline
Lunker

Registered: 10/14/08
Posts: 11
Loc: TEXAS
First let me say as a first time user I am pleased and overwhelmed by the responses and suggestions. This may be a lengthy reply so bear with me. My pond is fed by runoff and water pumped from the Brazos River whose salinity is currently running 2300 PPM TDS. The samples I have sent in from the pond proper which have been double that of the Brazos have been retreived from the surface in shallow water near the bank. My question is sampling technique. Could it be I need to get a better distribtion of samples depthwise and location wise around the pond and maybe test them myself. Thus the 2nd question. Is there a fairly accurate TDS meter on the market which I could purchase? Even though I love my school TAMU and its soil testing lab I could go broke sending in samples.If I had my own meter I could not only sample various location but also after rains etc.By the way my pond is also aerated very well so I don't know if this affects these numbers are not. One final note: the only other Forum I visit is an A&M football forum. My suggestion is don't go there - it's not very pleasant now and should be rated XXX for negativity. - Thanks - KCH

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#136000 - 10/15/08 06:55 AM Re: Pond Salinity [Re: KCH]
Cecil Baird1 Offline
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Registered: 08/08/02
Posts: 20043
Loc: Northeastern Indiana
AES has them in their catolog:

http://www.aquaticeco.com/
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#136008 - 10/15/08 08:37 AM Re: Pond Salinity [Re: burgermeister]
Theo Gallus Offline
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Registered: 05/14/04
Posts: 12346
Loc: Central Ohio
 Originally Posted By: burgermeister
I wonder if these ppm ranges are based on weight or volume?
Sorry; it's an engineering thang.

Hmmmm! Could salt water be poured over a spawning area to reduce the hatch? I also wonder what the critical exposure time would be?

Anybody want to spread rock salt over spawning beds next year and run an experiment?
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#136011 - 10/15/08 08:44 AM Re: Pond Salinity [Re: Theo Gallus]
david u Offline
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Registered: 11/28/06
Posts: 359
Loc: denton & montague counties
KCH,there are a few other TAMU grads here. We feel your pain re: other (won't mention) forum..
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#136022 - 10/15/08 10:20 AM Re: Pond Salinity [Re: david u]
ewest Offline
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Registered: 03/08/05
Posts: 19123
Loc: Miss.
Salinity was measured with a Beckman RS5-3 salinometer.
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