Pond Boss Forums STOCKING A NEW POND Types of fish to choose Cecil envy

Bruce,

With all due respect are you really sure they really grow that well at 54 degrees? That's well below their optimum range. Just because they seem to be feeding well does not mean they are growing fast. I've seen this feeding trout through the ice. They feed like gangbusters but they are not growing much in that cold of water if at all.

That said your system, knowledge, and ingenuity is impressive. You're giving me ideas.

You're absolutely right, Cecil. There's a clear difference between "definitely growing" and "growing well". I'm sure that by aquaculture standards, or any standards, this isn't an excellent growth rate. I think I'm just allowing my enthusiasm for the fact that they're growing at all to cloud my vision a little. One thing I am sure of (I think) is that they're growing quite a bit better at 54 degrees and constant feedings, than they would be at 39 degrees under the ice. Ultimately if I keep them healthy through the winter I hope they'll release well into one of my well fed ponds AND THEN take off in their growth rate. Regardless, it's pretty exciting.

This is so true. I share your excitement!

Just had a customer bring in a 1 lb. 9 oz. bluegill. He raises fish in aquariums as a hobby. I think he said he had nine of them. He says he has hatched bluegills in them and grown them out in an aquarium to slab size. Interesting. I think I am going to try some flow through in a tank for bluegill fry next to the bluegill pond. Eventually with perch and all my species. I hate buying and hauling fish!

"From what I know of Nebraska winters, I dont think a thermostat or adjustable model will be needed. If necessary, he can use the timer running the heater."

What I was trying to say, and did so rather poorly, is that Ne. winters are cooold, and that an in tank heater wouldn't need a thermostat. I dont think you will boil your fish. They may even get some 60-70 temp water. If it got too warm, then the timer could be used. As someone alluded to, as the ground gets colder, so will the bldg. 1500 watts directly in the water beats 1500 watts from space heater. Hope I didnt confuse myself again.

Makes perfect sense to me.

If I remember correctly, LMB metabolism halves or doubles with an 8 deg temp change. Using that to estimate, Bruce's YP should be using about 4 times more feed in the trough than they could under the ice - if they could even find all the food they would use down there in the cold, dark abyss.

Any growth is better than no growth at all. :p Sounds like a line out of a song but is so true. Not to mention the fun of watching it all happen under your direction . From our perspective it is great to be part of the trip via these posts not to mention the learning involved -- from RASs to YP and their metab. to Neb. winters to po-boy endg. methods. Thanks Bruce and CB1 for the ride and keep up the good work. ewest

Well, I finally did it. I bought another Rubbermaid container and set it up at home. I can't do flow through, so I set it up primarily for the enjoyment of watching a few of the yellow perch while eating and interacting. I took 32 fish out of the primary tank at the farm. Three of these were put into the holding tank for NEDOC and the other 29 made the trip into town. The tank has a standard aquarium aerator, albeit a powerful one, and I will be replacing 10-20 per day. I will also do a little siphoning of solid waste.

Now here's the interesting part. These fish were moved to another tank which would look identical to the interior of the tank from which they came. After three days these fish are still spooky as all get out! They ate a broken up night crawler during the day yesterday when I was gone, but if I enter the room they scatter, even whacking their little heads on the side of the tank. Curious, I thought, that they would need to be retrained to my presence. The water temp is about ten degrees warmer, and the ceiling would look different to them, but I'm assuming I look about the same. I'll try to document how soon they become acclimated to the new surrounding.

Another curiosity is that when I got the fish from the farm this weekend the outside temps had moderated into the 40's, the inside of the building had warmed to 40 on the floor, but the water in the tank measured at 56 F.!! I'm not sure how the water could be warmer than what's coming out of the pump. I thought my thermometer was extremely accurate. Could the metabolism of all those fish and food and waste be increasing the water temp a smidge?

Now my total numbers in the original Po'boy stands at 198 fish. I'll try to get a pic up soon.

"There's no place like home, there's no place like home, there's no place like home!"

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Maybe it's that their brains are ten degrees warmer?

Bruce, did you move small ones, big ones, or a random selection?

I was afraid to move the biggest ones because you should never mess with success. I think these fish represent the average. Big enough to have lots of potential.

Are you getting any solar heat gain from a nearby window shinning on the dark tank?

Bingo! Good job, SHORTY. I have a south facing window just a few feet away and the readings were taken in the afternoon. The Pond Boss forum kicks tail.

Bruce :

Check the light placement . At the farm they had light from a south window all day. Did they have overhead light when you checked on them ? At the house do you walk between the light and tank so as to cast a shadow on the water? Do you walk in and turn on a light and then walk between it and them? Warmer temps. plus more light = more active fish . If light is not the source of disruption then what about noise/vibration.

Bruce, I am finally back on PondBoss. Dang, I can't believe I missed 6 weeks of this thread. I may have just the solution for keeping your tank off of the cold floor. I will bring it tonight(if I don't get iced in).

Kind of a fascinating development. I've been feeding the 36% protein feed you can get at Tractor Supply Company to the perch. It just happened to be something that my bluegill have liked, but was cheap and available when I got the perch so I tried it. NEDOC got me some of the good stuff tonight. It was a 50% protein and a 1.5 mm slow sink and the perch went NUTS over it! I threw in probably 100 or so pellets and they were gone instantly. I think that this is going to accelerate my growth significantly. I know, I know, I know....I'm an aquaculturist and I should know better, but this time of the year it's hard for me to drive 40 minutes to the Purina mill and get feed. Thanks to NEDOC I think we're gonna see some bigger fish.

Incidentally SHORTY showed up and we had a little impromptu Pond Boss midwest regional meeting. Lusk didn't show up but we toasted him with a beer anyway.

Bruce -Yperch "do best" in dim light; just bright enough to see to walk around. Brighter lights will contribute to the spooky behavior. Some RAS systems use constant 24 hr dim light while others use light & dark cycles. Some even get fancy and have lights come on with an increasing slow sunrise progression. Either will work for you. Cecil and I keep preaching about the benefits of higher protein foods. You can lead a horse to water but some are still hesitant to drink.

Bruce, I really enjoyed the impromptu meeting last night with you and NEDOC, your YP tank has me thinking about some things I could do.

I will be contacting Anheuser Busch for some sponsorship money for our next 'impromptu' regional Pond Boss meeting.

Nice meeting you SHORTY.

BTW, SHORTY, that wasn't a YP tank that was a SMB tank that had been invaded by YP.

Bruce :

What do you think caused the YP to go after the new food? The fact that it sunk slowly or pellet size or the smell/taste released into the water. If it was a real fast reaction from the YP then I would wonder if it were the latter but it sure could be. It could be a combo of all of these or maybe just hungery .

IMHO, it was the fact that these fish were acclimated to this exact size and brand of feed early in life. NEDOC acquired the feed from the grower that I got the perch from originally, so I think there is some imprinting on that taste and consistency. This may have some implications to other Pond Bossers who are selecting feed for their ponds. If they got there fish from a particular hatchery or grower it might be beneficial to find out what type of feed they were raised on.

I also think the smaller size was important, but we checked the ingredients and I'm under the impression that fish meal was a primary protein delivering component in the feed that the YP like, while soy product was the protein component in the feed they didn't like.

Regardless, it was impressive how quickly and agressively the yellow perch switched to the new feed. They seemed to "remember" it very quickly.

That's what I was thinking!

I'm going to check out the cost of the bottom half of a concrete 2-pc septic tank, it should hold 400 to 500 gallons, the only drawback is that once it is set in place, it can't be moved easily.

Cecil, don't you think that this might be an economical way to select for feed trained fish when it comes to smallmouth bass, largemouth bass etc? As expensive and hard to come by as they can be it seems like you could cheaply purchase a bunch of advanced fingerlings, then after a couple of months the fish that are growing are obviously the agressive and/or feed friendly fish. Then you could sell or give away the smaller ones which would probably be great fish for someone anyway?

Everybody else-Am I just dreaming, or would this not be a possibility to get purchased fish up to a size that they wouldn't get devoured the second they hit your pond? Even if you don't have well water, you could siphon waste once every couple of days. Just wondering...

Bruce :

I want to check on a couple of your points to see what the the research provides. I think there are several ways to get to the point of having/selecting advanced fingerlings (or adults) with excellent quality and growth potential. Your approach is outstanding as it reaches that goal and it allows for a lot of fun and hands on learnig and you get to make the choice of fish and methods to get there. I do think your method selects for genetic growth potential. What I am not sure about is does it select also (it may well) for survivability . I think there is some info on this on both sides of the question. But in your approach it is important to question the hatchery at length on its brood stock sources and their life history. I would like to see someone start with top quality local wild fish have them spawn in an RAS and then do what you are doing.

This is gerat absolutely fascinating. Thank you Bruce for starting this topic.

ewest--I defintely agree with and understand your point of survivability. This encompasses many variables including ability to escape, pursue, tolerance to water quality issues, intelligence and adaptability. One very important aspect that we have nailed though is initial size. You can't teach length!