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#13346 - 12/14/05 11:49 AM Re: Cecil envy
Cecil Baird1 Offline
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Registered: 08/08/02
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Loc: Northeastern Indiana
 Quote:
Originally posted by Bruce Condello:
Cecil, don't you think that this might be an economical way to select for feed trained fish when it comes to smallmouth bass, largemouth bass etc? As expensive and hard to come by as they can be it seems like you could cheaply purchase a bunch of advanced fingerlings, then after a couple of months the fish that are growing are obviously the agressive and/or feed friendly fish. Then you could sell or give away the smaller ones which would probably be great fish for someone anyway?

Everybody else-Am I just dreaming, or would this not be a possibility to get purchased fish up to a size that they wouldn't get devoured the second they hit your pond? Even if you don't have well water, you could siphon waste once every couple of days. Just wondering...
Bruce,

Absolutely. I think you also should be able to take it a step farther, and not even have to purchase fish of any size from a supplier. But what you are doing right now will give you valuable experience. You can work up to this as you gain experience.

I would eventually like to produce my own fish completely from eggs from my own broodstock as I'm sure you would. I belive you're already doing this with bluegills?

As far as yellow perch eggs they are easy to collect from a pond if you have broodstock in the pond, and there now is good information on how to hatch them etc.
I have had YP numerous egg strands in the pond edges that I could have collected. That said, one of the difficulties with the perch is once you hatch them indoors you must provide zooplankton ASAP, and even are able to provide zooplankton by feeding water in from the pond the fry are so small you run the risk of losing them in your tank overflow. (At least that is what a professor from U of W told us at a recent Aquaculture meeting. From what I have seen most producers hatch them indoors and then plant the fry back into a special pond. Once they get to be a certain size then they feed train them.

I already have good bluegill reprodution in my bluegill pond as you probably do, and it would be quite easy to trap enough in one or more minnow traps. I plan on doing that this spring. I want to put them into a tank and feed them and have water from the bluegill pond flow through via gravity or a ram pump. I guess I would need to bring them indoors in winter of which I do have a storage shed partially underground.

Sure would like to produce all my own fish and I think I can do it. Just wish I had more ponds!

I'm putting in a "floating raceway" into my new trout pond ajacent to a pier this spring. My well water flow will drop into this floating raceway and exit into the pond like it normally does. I should be able to easily regulate it as it comes out of a PVC pipe. If I want less flow I can put a gate valve on the end of pipe with a diversion pipe on the side. I hope to grow out trout fingerlings to planting size in the raceway and the next step will be to put in another well on another part of the property with a low flow and iron filter to hatch my own trout eggs. I dont' want to run the present one at 38 gpms all year just to hatch eggs and it's not needed for the main trout pond in winter anyway.
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#13347 - 12/14/05 02:03 PM Re: Cecil envy
ewest Offline
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From the old Johnny Carson Show : \:D

Karnak -- a po-boy RAS , a hatchery order for
SMB fingerlings and 50 % protein
SMB feed.

question -- What will be under the xmas tree for
Shorty.

Bruce :

You are correct there is no sub. for length. But even advanced fingerlings/small adults get eaten when placed in predator filled ponds . Its just that the % survival is better but you are working from much smaller numbers. That is why I posted the topic on the study about protecting newly stocked fish (all sizes) for a short period to reduce predation. Also on a cost/effort basis it is hard to RAS enough adult fish to stock a 15 acre pond . That is why it is hard to find large advanced fingerling/adult LMB . Most people don't or can't pay a high enough price to warrant hatchery growout to length over 8in.+-. That seems to be changing. I have had a much easier time finding them lately vs. 5 years ago. Many factors to survivability and fitness and growth --so little time to figure them out. \:\)
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#13348 - 12/14/05 05:02 PM Re: Cecil envy
Shorty Offline
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Registered: 07/28/05
Posts: 4180
Loc: Raymond, NE
 Quote:
From the old Johnny Carson Show :

Karnak -- a po-boy RAS , a hatchery order for
SMB fingerlings and 50 % protein
SMB feed.

question -- What will be under the xmas tree for
Shorty.
:D

We actually stocked 250 2-3" SMB in the pond last fall, this was 2-3 months after thinnig the LMBs down and then the subsequent fish kill we had, combined those two events removed 20 LMB's per acre in the 12-17" range (mostley 13"ers), or around 200 LMB's in total. The question is, how many SMB's survived the guantlet of the remaining LMB's? Personally I would be happy if 10% survived but I have not seen any of the SMB to date. Even after the LMB thinning there was only a slight decrease in the LMB catch rate. Bruce's growout tank idea may be the best way I can get SMB's above predation size so they can get established. BTW - I think I am starting to have a little bit of Bruce envy after seeing his fish last night. \:D
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#13349 - 12/14/05 05:42 PM Re: Cecil envy
NEDOC Offline
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Registered: 08/20/04
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Loc: SC Nebraska
SHORTY, speaking from experience on this one, I think you just stocked some largemouth bait. I think I know someone who would be interested in obtaining some grownout SMB as well.

I told you last night that meeting Bruce is dangerous. You need to stop the addiction while you can. \:D Today I started working on a small project that involves a 150 gal. tank, a new drain in my shop and a small water heater. When my wife finds out, I will be afraid to go to sleep at night. I will blame it all on Bruce. \:D
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#13350 - 12/14/05 05:51 PM Re: Cecil envy
Shorty Offline
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Registered: 07/28/05
Posts: 4180
Loc: Raymond, NE
 Quote:
SHORTY, speaking from experience on this one, I think you just stocked some largemouth bait. I think I know someone who would be interested in obtaining some grownout SMB as well.
The heavy weed cover in the pond may have provided a safe haven for the SMB, there were also lots and lots of similar sized BG for the remaining LMBs to eat last fall with a lot less compettition. Just in case you are right though, a growout pond is the way to insure that it works. BTW - Visiting Bruce is dangerous! \:D
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#13351 - 12/14/05 07:51 PM Re: Cecil envy
ewest Offline
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Shorty :

Sounds to me like NEDOC may be a customer for some SMB advanced fingerlings. \:D Seems like others on the forum are also looking. May be some $$'s in this idea for new SMB grower. \:\)
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#13352 - 12/15/05 09:56 PM Re: Cecil envy
Sunil Offline
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SHORTY, I did something very similar to what you did with the SMB stocking. I'll have to confirm the year dates vs. my records, but the time gaps are correct.

In spring '04, we stocked 300 SMB in my pond. The SMB were in the 3-5" range, with most being 3". My pond was 6-7 acres and had an existing population of LMB, Crappie, Bluegill, Yellow Perch, and Bullheads. There were all sizes of LMB up to about 20" long.

Throughout that summer '04, I don't think I saw any of the SMB. However, they were there as I know now.

In Fall '04, I stocked 50 more SMB that were about 6".

This spring, I could see two distinct sizes of SMB. One size group was around 5-6" and the other group was 8-10".

So I think that you will have some survivors.

I also believe that the SMB is the smartest fish in the world, and should have a seat in the highest levels of Local, State, and National U.S. Government.

Smallmouth for President in '08?
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#13353 - 12/15/05 10:18 PM Re: Cecil envy
ewest Offline
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Loc: Miss.
Sunil :

Your SMB sure are smart. \:\) They were center stage on TV and there are a lot of people who try and can't do that. I guess that makes them smarter than a lot of the Hollywood crowd. ;\)
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#13354 - 12/15/05 10:41 PM Re: Cecil envy
Sunil Offline
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ewest, it's funny you mention that because one of my smallies just won a spelling bee against Cameron Diaz! I am so proud.

Now, several of my SMB are in training to try out for Jeopardy. They wanted to be on Wheel of Fortune, but I convinced them that they couldn't spin the wheel.
_________________________
Excerpt from Robert Crais' "The Monkey's Raincoat:"
"She took another microscopic bite of her sandwich, then pushed it away. Maybe she absorbed nutrients from her surroundings."


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#13355 - 12/15/05 10:44 PM Re: Cecil envy
Dave Davidson Offline
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Registered: 04/22/02
Posts: 1892
Loc: Hurst & Bowie Texas
Sunil, there is nothing smart about running for governmental office. First, they would have to go to law school. Then, if that didn't work out, they could go into politics.

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#13356 - 12/15/05 10:55 PM Re: Cecil envy
Cecil Baird1 Offline
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If some of you don't remember I had all but five of 200 fingerling smallmouth escape from a floating cage due to a undectected hole in the side. I thought they were history due to the numerous largemouth in the pond, but they weren't. I now have more than I want and would gladly give them all to Sunil. Hopefully I will be able to remove as many as possible for him to pick up. I've actually had some reproduction too even though I lack a sand gravel bottom.
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#13357 - 12/15/05 11:32 PM Re: Cecil envy
Sunil Offline
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Cecil, we're on for the spring, for sure.

I didn't want to hog them all, but I will if no one else would like to take some.
_________________________
Excerpt from Robert Crais' "The Monkey's Raincoat:"
"She took another microscopic bite of her sandwich, then pushed it away. Maybe she absorbed nutrients from her surroundings."


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#13358 - 12/16/05 06:48 AM Re: Cecil envy
Cecil Baird1 Offline
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Registered: 08/08/02
Posts: 20043
Loc: Northeastern Indiana
Sunil,

They are all yours. I'm trying to arrange a shocker boat to come out but not sure it will happen. They haven't called me back and may not want to deal in taxidermy mounts this time. And it's expensive although I might get them down in price as they wouldn't be doing a survey. If not, I will just have to fish the pond hard for about a week before your hauler comes and put the fish in floating cages as I would do if we shocked the pond.

My goal it to concentrate on fewer species and the smallmouth just don't sell very well as there are parts of the country where taxidermists can easily go out and catch large ones i.e. Lake Erie and the TVA Lakes.
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If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.







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#13359 - 12/16/05 09:25 AM Re: Cecil envy
Shorty Offline
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Registered: 07/28/05
Posts: 4180
Loc: Raymond, NE
Cecil, how big are the floating cages you use? Did you make them or did you purchase them? I'm still looking at ideas! ;\)
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#13360 - 12/16/05 12:48 PM Re: Cecil envy
NEDOC Offline
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Registered: 08/20/04
Posts: 745
Loc: SC Nebraska
SHORTY, I have a nice sized floating cage you are more than welcome. Do you know anyone down this way who could pick it up? ;\)
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#13361 - 12/16/05 01:50 PM Re: Cecil envy
Cecil Baird1 Offline
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Registered: 08/08/02
Posts: 20043
Loc: Northeastern Indiana
Shorty,

I have three of them. Two 7feet by 7 feet. And one 10 by 10. All but one are on the bottom of the pond next to the pier acting as structure when not being used. I believe they will last longer underwater.

1 1/2 inch PVC and the three cornered PVC fittings are available from Stoney Creek Equipment Company. http://www.stoneycreekequip.com/
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If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.







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#13362 - 12/16/05 02:17 PM Re: Cecil envy
Shorty Offline
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Registered: 07/28/05
Posts: 4180
Loc: Raymond, NE
I'll take you up on that NEDOC! \:\)

Thank you for the link Cecil! ;\)
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#13363 - 12/16/05 05:49 PM Re: Cecil envy
Bruce Condello Offline
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Headline: WHAT NOT TO DO WITH YOUR YELLOW PERCH GROWOUT SYSTEM.

Last night I was draining twenty gallons of water out of my home growout tank since this system doesn't have flowthrough capability. As I was draining it I turned on the sink hose to simultaneously fill. After about ten minutes, one of my perch suddenly shot to the surface and jumped about two inches in the air! "That's strange", I thought to myself. In a little bit he started swimming upside down. It was at this point that I realized I had stupidly turned on the HOT water nozzle and the temp in my tank had gone from 65 degrees to 85 degrees.

I quickly turned on the cold water and was able to return the water to normal with only the one mortality.

Hey, I told you before, I'm no Alfred Einstein.
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#13364 - 12/16/05 06:49 PM Re: Cecil envy
Cecil Baird1 Offline
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Registered: 08/08/02
Posts: 20043
Loc: Northeastern Indiana
Bruce,

Welcome to the club! \:D

BTW it's Albert Einstein not Alfred Einstein. :p
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If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.







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#13365 - 12/16/05 06:55 PM Re: Cecil envy
Bruce Condello Offline
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 Quote:
Originally posted by Cecil Baird1:


BTW it's Albert Einstein not Alfred Einstein. :p
See! You already know more than me! \:D
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#13366 - 12/16/05 06:57 PM Re: Cecil envy
burgermeister Offline
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Registered: 02/27/05
Posts: 4025
Loc: Houston, Tx.
I think the Doc knows its Albert; afterall he is his cousin Dr. Frankenstein..er Frankenbruce.
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#13367 - 12/16/05 07:08 PM Re: Cecil envy
Cecil Baird1 Offline
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Registered: 08/08/02
Posts: 20043
Loc: Northeastern Indiana
Bruce,

Your getting closer to being a certified fish farmer. You almost killed your stock! ;\)
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If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.







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#13368 - 12/16/05 08:36 PM Re: Cecil envy
burgermeister Offline
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Registered: 02/27/05
Posts: 4025
Loc: Houston, Tx.
Bruce, do you have city water or from a well. If city water, the chlorine doesn't present a problem?
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#13369 - 12/16/05 08:44 PM Re: Cecil envy
Bruce Condello Offline
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I'm using a dechlorinating agent that only costs 9.99 for enough to dechlorinate 90,000 gallons, and supposedly counteracts some of the metal ions that are present. I do think that the city water overall isn't as good for the fish as the well water at the pond. What do you think about that?
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#13370 - 12/16/05 09:53 PM Re: Cecil envy
ewest Offline
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Bruce :

I am no certified fish farmer and I killed a bunch of BG in my aquarium by absent mindedly not putting in the declor and adding our city water. It was a good thing that there were only about 20 at the time. Chlorine in your water kills fish quick. \:o
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