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#129761 - 08/19/08 09:39 AM Re: O.K. aeration experts... [Re: Cecil Baird1]
ewest Offline
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Hall of Fame 2014

Lunker

Registered: 03/08/05
Posts: 19497
Loc: Miss.
Me to. I wonder if that was a result of the puter changeover. 5 star in my book.
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#129763 - 08/19/08 09:52 AM Re: O.K. aeration experts... [Re: ewest]
burgermeister Offline
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Registered: 02/27/05
Posts: 4025
Loc: Houston, Tx.
I just helped kick you back up. I got 5 stars when the format changed, and I have never allowed ratings. It must be counting my meaningful posts.
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#129812 - 08/19/08 02:39 PM Re: O.K. aeration experts... [Re: burgermeister]
Cecil Baird1 Offline
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Why do I only have four stars?

Never mind don't answer that. It's probably the same reason I'm not a moderator.


Edited by Cecil Baird1 (08/19/08 06:30 PM)
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If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.







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#129823 - 08/19/08 04:50 PM Re: O.K. aeration experts... [Re: Cecil Baird1]
Cary Martin Offline
Ambassador <br /> Field Correspondent
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Registered: 11/24/04
Posts: 551
Loc: Mooresville, NC
Thanks All!

Any questions on what I posted? I know it is a lot of information to absorb, but it does show that more goes into sizing an aeration system than just making bubbles.

That is why I use the Bob Lusk question "what are your goals?"
_________________________
Cary Martin
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#129835 - 08/19/08 05:59 PM Re: O.K. aeration experts... [Re: Cary Martin]
Ric Swaim Offline
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Registered: 04/24/03
Posts: 1902
Loc: Surry Co NC
5 more sent your way Cary.
Those low ratings must carry more weight than the high ones cause you still only have 4.

Bruce, Cecil, you got 5 too.


Edited by Ric Swaim (08/19/08 06:02 PM)
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If you can read this ... thank a teacher. Since it's in english ... thank our military!
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#129842 - 08/19/08 06:31 PM Re: O.K. aeration experts... [Re: Ric Swaim]
Cecil Baird1 Offline
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Loc: Northeastern Indiana
I gave Cary five stars too. ;\)
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If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.







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#129844 - 08/19/08 06:42 PM Re: O.K. aeration experts... [Re: Cecil Baird1]
Bing Offline
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It looks like we have successfully stolen another post and changed it from aeration to stars.

I've noticed many of us have only one star, including all moderators. I was so confused about it that I PMed Bob and made sure that 1 was low and 5 was good. (It is). It appears that star ratings start out as a 1 until someone raises it. I am afraid to look at Lusk's. If he is a one we are all doomed.

Bing
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#129898 - 08/20/08 08:58 AM Re: O.K. aeration experts... [Re: Bing]
Cary Martin Offline
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Registered: 11/24/04
Posts: 551
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Bing, you are right! I ran this post off in a different direction by accident. Lets see if I can get it back on track.

After totaling the amount of oxygen required, lets round that up to 100 mg/200 lbs of food fed, we need to match the total number of air diffusers to meet that need.

This is where knowing what your oxygen transfer rate of the diffuser comes into play vs. the gallons per min. for circulation like we use in a standard recreation pond.

Again you will need to know the lbs of fis, species and size and water depth.

A good reference for oxygen consumption for speciecs of fish in 02/hour/100 fish:

Coldwater Adults = 0.02 lbs
Warmwater Adults / Coldwater juvies = 0.03 lbs
Stripers = 0.04 lbs
Warmwater Juvies = 0.05 lbs

Number of diffusers required:

Lbs of Fish / 100 x Fish Requirements = x/diffuser 02 requirements = # of diffusers

Now match your compressor to the number of diffusers:

1.Diffuser requires ? of Cfm each.
2.CFM of Air x # of Diffusers = CFM Required from Compressor
3.Water Depth + Friction Loss in Tubing = Actual PSI requried.


I hope this gets this post back on track!
_________________________
Cary Martin
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#129926 - 08/20/08 04:02 PM Re: O.K. aeration experts... [Re: Cary Martin]
WaterWizard Offline
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Registered: 11/08/07
Posts: 227
Loc: San Luis Obispo, CA, USA
Hi Cary, great posts. What is your resource for the 02 requirements per species/size so that I may further educate myself?
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EP Aeration
rich@epaeration.com
www.epaeration.com
(800) 556-9251


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#130015 - 08/21/08 08:32 AM Re: O.K. aeration experts... [Re: WaterWizard]
Cary Martin Offline
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Registered: 11/24/04
Posts: 551
Loc: Mooresville, NC
Hi Richard,

It was the book of class notes by Cary Martin. Actually I have a binder I have kept since 1986 when I started college.

Since then every class, seminar, symposium and post on Pond Boss and even discussions with clients in the field, I have added my notes.

Most of the specific information came from a seminar I attended with Dr. Claud Boyd with Aburn. He does have a book out, that I will have to give you the title when I get back to my office next week. I also gathered some of this information from the following: "Handbook For Common Calculations In Finfish Aquaculture" by, Louisiana Agricultural Experiment Station. Louisiana State Universsity.

Maybe I should become a publisher and publish all of this info into one book. Too bad it would be only me to know how I wrote it down.
_________________________
Cary Martin
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e4/martincv123/fishfight.gif[/IMG]

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#130055 - 08/21/08 03:42 PM Re: O.K. aeration experts... [Re: Cary Martin]
WaterWizard Offline
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Registered: 11/08/07
Posts: 227
Loc: San Luis Obispo, CA, USA
Thanks for the info Cary. If you remember, please send me the title of that book.
_________________________
Richard Dennis
EP Aeration
rich@epaeration.com
www.epaeration.com
(800) 556-9251


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#130110 - 08/22/08 09:31 AM Re: O.K. aeration experts... [Re: WaterWizard]
Cary Martin Offline
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Registered: 11/24/04
Posts: 551
Loc: Mooresville, NC
I have it marked in the calandar to send it to you. And again, spelling got me...Auburn, if I had a wish for the forum page that would be spell checker. I rely on it too much.
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http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e4/martincv123/fishfight.gif[/IMG]

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#130131 - 08/22/08 03:14 PM Re: O.K. aeration experts... [Re: Cary Martin]
jimmydee Offline
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Registered: 05/09/08
Posts: 87
Loc: Missouri
Ok guys, here goes. I am taking the smallest sump pump I can find, mounting it to a wooden bracket and using styrofoam for balance and bouyancy. I'm going to place the pump about two feet under the water. Coming out of my pump is a two inch hose, that will be reduce down (twice) to a 3/4 inch hose that will create additional pressure and use this sytsem as a horizontal aeration spray that will be about 8-10 inches under the water. Comments???? I'll let you know how this system works. Should create that "lazy river" flow that has been talked about. Wish me luck. JJ

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#130258 - 08/24/08 04:51 PM Re: O.K. aeration experts... [Re: jimmydee]
Cecil Baird1 Offline
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Registered: 08/08/02
Posts: 20043
Loc: Northeastern Indiana
 Originally Posted By: jimmydee
Ok guys, here goes. I am taking the smallest sump pump I can find, mounting it to a wooden bracket and using styrofoam for balance and bouyancy. I'm going to place the pump about two feet under the water. Coming out of my pump is a two inch hose, that will be reduce down (twice) to a 3/4 inch hose that will create additional pressure and use this sytsem as a horizontal aeration spray that will be about 8-10 inches under the water. Comments???? I'll let you know how this system works. Should create that "lazy river" flow that has been talked about. Wish me luck. JJ


Is it cost effective vs. a compressor designed for a diffuser? That is, how much power does it use and is it rated for continuous use? Personally I can't see anything as cost effective or efficient as moving water with rising air.
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If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.







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#130261 - 08/24/08 07:08 PM Re: O.K. aeration experts... [Re: Cecil Baird1]
Bill Cody Offline
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Registered: 04/18/02
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Idea will work, but in addition to what CB1 said, reducing the stream down to 3/4" hose will put additional stress/strain on the motor greater than its intended purpose, thus shortening its useful life. This could be verified with manufacturer's technical staff.
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#130270 - 08/24/08 11:45 PM Re: O.K. aeration experts... [Re: Bill Cody]
Cecil Baird1 Offline
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Registered: 08/08/02
Posts: 20043
Loc: Northeastern Indiana
Not trying to be a naysayer but sump pumps don't have a lot of pressure either. Try hooking one up to a yard sprinkler and you will see what I mean.
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If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.







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#130292 - 08/25/08 11:35 AM Re: O.K. aeration experts... [Re: Cecil Baird1]
jimmydee Offline
Lunker

Registered: 05/09/08
Posts: 87
Loc: Missouri
When shopping for the sump pump, there was a contractor who made the same comment to me about "intended use". That, along with advice from this forum, has made me put that concept on hold. He thinks that by reducing the 2" down to 3/4" might put too much back pressure on the pump. Sooooooooooo, back to the drawing board. As usual, thanks guys, your're awesome. JJ

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#132651 - 09/16/08 01:13 PM Re: O.K. aeration experts... [Re: jimmydee]
Doug Perry Offline
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Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 10
Loc: Pompano Beach, Florida, USA
jimmydee-

I've been reading Pond Boss for some time now, and thought I'd finally chime in. My background is in large scale aquarium(upto and including public and institutional exhibits) design and construction.

I can tell you from experience that you will greatly reduce the efficacy of your sump pump and it's longevity by reducing the size of the return (outflow). If that idea is truly something your interested in, you'd be best fit to find a unit that is rated for high head pressure. These type of units are already designed with a smaller return than the suction (intake) side.

High flow units have the same size return as they do suction. These are not the ones you want if you're looking for high pressure out of the return.

Not to mention, as the guys already have, that moving water takes more energy than moving air. Water is heavier and takes more energy to move. Larger pumps require more electricity, which equals to more dollars out of your pocket. Moving air via compressor, takes a lot less energy, and moves the water for you as a desireable "side effect." (even though in our case it's actually the end result we're looking for from the start).

If there's anything I can help you with, please let me know. Good luck with whatever you decide.
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#132655 - 09/16/08 01:16 PM Re: O.K. aeration experts... [Re: Doug Perry]
Theo Gallus Offline
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Registered: 05/14/04
Posts: 12384
Loc: Central Ohio
Welcome to the forum, Doug. "Gold Coast", right?
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#132715 - 09/17/08 09:18 AM Re: O.K. aeration experts... [Re: Theo Gallus]
Doug Perry Offline
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Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 10
Loc: Pompano Beach, Florida, USA
Thanks Theo. Yeah. Pompano is on the Gold Coast, which is where I work. I live about 10 miles west of the beach.

The information here is endless. I always refer people to the site. It's a fantastic resource for anyone in the hobby or industry!!!
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Vertex Water Features
http://www.vertexwaterfeatures.com

"Other people see things as they are and say why, I see things that never were and say why not"

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#132716 - 09/17/08 09:21 AM Re: O.K. aeration experts... [Re: Doug Perry]
Bruce Condello Offline
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Registered: 08/01/04
Posts: 8854
Loc: United States
Welcome, Doug.

It's really good to have you here.

Bruce
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#132717 - 09/17/08 09:49 AM Re: O.K. aeration experts... [Re: Bruce Condello]
Doug Perry Offline
Lunker

Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 10
Loc: Pompano Beach, Florida, USA
Thanks Bruce. It's been an incredibly winding road to get to where I am now, but I really enjoy what I'm doing and am able to draw off of many aspects of my educational and work experience to help others.

I actually taught a few classes on photosynthesis, and water chemistry as it pertains to live coral propagation. I owned a coral farm that I sold a few years ago, where I would study the effects of waste materials, light period, and water flow on growth rates of corals and algae. Granted that was a marine application, but the information still applies.

What many people have in their pond situations is very similar to exceptionally large aquariums that are exposed to the elements, where conditions are a little more fluid (no pun intended). It took quite a bit of reading the posts here to see that, but the situations parallel each other quite closely.

I look forward to learning more about the issues people are facing and helping any way that I can. Thanks again for the warm welcome.
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Vertex Water Features
http://www.vertexwaterfeatures.com

"Other people see things as they are and say why, I see things that never were and say why not"

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