Pond Boss Forums STOCKING A NEW POND Types of fish to choose Calling Dave Willis! wiper stocking

Looking for a northen take on stocking wipers. The stocking program in Iowa has done well stocking wipers in our rivers and reservoirs here.Can this fish be stocked with much success in smaller waters? I have a 2.5 ac pond 14ft at center,adult BG and LMB are the main residents.My main questions are feeding and structure, type of fish to add or delete to help them to survive.

Hello, Mr. Willy. I'm afraid that I can't help very much!! I used to work some with the hybrids in the large public waters in Kansas, but have done almost nothing with them since moving to South Dakota quite a few years ago. The SD state agency just does not use them.

Now, if we can get Norm Kopecky's attention, he might tell us a little. He did get permission to stock some in his pond near Sioux Falls. However, I'm not sure he's had them long enough to be of much help. However, he can at least tell us if his fish are on pelleted food. Hopefully, he'll spot this. If not, I'll e-mail him and ask him to chime in.

I'm assuming that you just want the hybrids for diversity in your pond fishery? I'm pretty convinced that largemouths are more effective predators for controlling bluegills (predation) than the "open-water" hybrids. There's been some pretty convincing research on that. So, if you just want some for fun, I think that I'd stock a relatively low number, and see if they will take feed. I would not add any structure for them, and I would not add any other fish as long as you feed them.

If you have adult largemouth bass, you're going to need to buy some advanced sizes of hybrids for stocking, and those will most likely be on pelleted food anyhow (they train very easily). Last year, Norm got us some 6-inchers that we stocked into a 7-acre gravel pit that had mature largemouth bass and walleyes. We have never seen a single survivor from that stocking. So, if you have 15-20 inch largemouths in your pond, you better be looking for 10-12 inch hybrids for stocking?? At that size, and seeing how you will be experimenting, I think that I'd keep the stocking rate down. Maybe 20/acre?? Just sort of arm-chairing that.

Let's see what some of the southern folks say about the size of hybrid to stock, and how many to stock. I'll be interested in your long-term results!

Dave

mr willey, I will share my experience with you regarding Hybrid Striped Bass (HSB).

I am certainly no expert but I have learned much from very expensive mistakes.
You might want to review past discussions on this subject:

http://www.pondboss.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=5;t=000344
http://www.pondboss.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=5;t=000199

Primarily, if you plan to stock HSB in a mature Largemouth Bass (LMB) pond, anything less than 8 – 10 stockers will be expensive LMB fish food.
If none are available in your area, I would recommend much higher stocking numbers.

In addition to Dave Willis, Bruce Condello is an expert on this subject and I'm sure he will chime in.
I would rely on his recommendation, as well as other HSB growers on this forum

Good luck,
George Glazener
N.E. Texas ¼ acre and 2 acre ponds

Wipers, also known as HSB (hybrid striped bass) on this forum in some ways are better suited to northern ponds than they are to warmer, southern ponds. I would start by reading the "classic" thread, started by George last year. All of the posts that I made are from a northern perspective but apply well to southern situations as well. Here is the link.

http://www.pondboss.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=5;t=000199

You should read this carefully then fire away with a specific question.

Thanks, Bruce. Glad you were watching.

You were the one who got the hybrids for Norm, weren't you?? Or at least organized the contacts?

Believe it or not I actually spent most of yesterday afternoon seining HSB with Norm! We pulled up 1500 in all and about 300 of them were my so-called "super growers" that were 6.5-8 inches long. Some real beauties! Ed Eitel from Lusk, WY will be coming to get the best ones in a few days. I sold out of every fish this year, which basically means that I broke even. :p

Man, you're becoming the Midwestern wiper magnate! This will be fun. I'm really looking forward to seeing what the next couple of years will bring for Norm and Ed (didn't know you were helping Ed as well as Norm).

Thanks for the excellent information from all,I can always count on this forum to point me in the right direction.I have to admit that I was lost as to what a HSB was exactly is and if there was a paticular version of the fish best suited for the Northern regions.I knew of the Palmetto and the sunshine bass but no clue as to which version might be best for me.This is what I understand to be correct.The only difference between the two versions is the switching of the male and female egg and sprem with the white bass and the striped bass,most HSB are the Palmetto which uses the white bass sprem and the striped bass egg.Whats the advantage in either version? Most HSB are affected by the warmer water temps during summer months, could one version be more resistant? I should stock the pond with 10"-12" HSB, is this larger size going to be difficult to find? Is now the best time to stock? or did I miss the boat (again )GO CYCLONES!!....SORRY BRUCE.

Mr.W. The larger 10"-12" HSB were very hard for me to find in NW Ohio so I bought about 25-28 at 7"-8" long and grew them for one summer (midMay-Oct)in a cylindrical home-made fish cage. In October I ended with 23 that were 12.5"-12.5" long. Stocked 16 of them in my 3/4 acre pond. They survived and grew well.

Quote:
………………………………………………………………………………

I knew of the Palmetto and the sunshine bass but no clue as to which version might be best for me. This is what I understand to be correct. The only difference between the two versions is the switching of the male and female egg and sprem with the white bass and the striped bass, most HSB are the Palmetto which uses the white bass sprem and the striped bass egg.Whats the advantage in either version?

…………………………………………………………………………………………………

The Palmetto hybrid striped bass is a cross between a female striped bass and a male white bass, whereas the Sunshine bass is a reciprocal cross utilize the eggs from a white bass and the sperm of a striped bass.

The Texas Parks and Wildlife Department, as well as other state and federal hatcheries produce the “standard” female striped bass and male white bass cross, whereas most private hatcheries produce the “reciprocal cross.

There is a reason for this.
Females must be captured within 14 hours of ovulation and critical stress levels must be controlled for successful ovulation.

Female white bass have a much higher tolerance for stress and therefore are used by most, if not all private hatcheries.

The largest HSB hatchery in our region is Keo Fish Farms located in Lonoak, Arkansas, and to the best of my knowledge, produces the “reciprocal” Sunshine HSB.

I am not aware of any advantages one way or another, but I do know that opinions differ on this subject.

George Glazener

My Dear Cousin Black Jack:

I don't remember you saying which of the ponds you were using for HSB grow out. What size is it, and how many went in?

Bruce's Pirate Cousin Bloody Sam Kidd

I used the Firestone I pond and I stocked 1,400 one-inchers. Somehow I ended up with more. I think that Mike Freeze from Keo fish farms was very generous in his original counting.

...and mr willy, I was at the game today. Sorry about your 'clones. Tough, hard fought game. :p

mr willy, I do indeed have HSB. They came from Keo via Carlson Clearwater Fish. Including delivery, they cost about $4.50 each. I got 50 and Jim Mannerud (Dave Willis manages his lakes) got 50. About half were 6-8" and the other half were 8-10". This was on 9/30/04 and I'm sorry that none of them survived for Jim. In addition to possibly being eaten in Jim's lake, they may not have had enough forage.,

Certainly I don't know how many surived for us but I do know that a large number of them did. We catch them from both size groups. We do feed them Aquamax 600 but this is done irregularily. I'm guessing that they are growing much slower because of this but that's OK with me.

Our biggest LMB were only 16-18" with most of them 14-16" at the time of stocking so maybe they weren't big enough to eat all of the HSB.
Our lake is predator heavy so they really have to fight for other forage.

I'm glad we have them, they provide a wonderful addition to our lake.

Thanks Norm, I will give them a call. I had zero luck finding any HSB in Iowa.What size are you seeing the HSB after one year? I will go to a pellet feeder in the spring, but I would rather build a forage base for them instead. I know there are some good size LMB in the pond,if I could find 10" to 12" I would feel better about it.

In my opinion, there is a great downside to HSB. While they fight harder than the LMB, they are much less elusive. Let me clarify....almost all HSB are pellet trained at the hatchery, they readily take food from the feeders or hand tossed. Throw in a "worm" during feeding time, you can catch them non-stop, just like catfish, mine anyway. Try that with ordinary Bass.

You pay at the pump HSB are fine naturally if you have Threadfin or tons of baitfish, otherwise, you are paying for feed to support their weight. Fish the feed and harvest as desired. That somewhat defeats the thrill of fishing for me, great for beginner kids though.

When I get the chance to fish with friends, or my Pop, feeding and catching cheapens fishing skills. (lol, Texas slang) Sure, we use that method if we're looking for a fish fry...but for competition, it's artificial all the way ! LMB still rule as the aggressive predator, hence, the bragging rights always go to the biggest LMB.

Eastland- Like my kids I wouldn't want them to get too spoiled! My plan is to supplement feed as little as possible.At this point I am not sure how much forage base I have,the LMB seem fat and happy.

Eastland,
Todd Overton is currently “growing out” large HSB with tilapia as primary forage, and supplemental feeding.
They might be more inclined to chase bait than eat pellets?

George Glazener

My limited experience with the HSB in our 2 acre pond has been nothing but positive. Last spring before stocking the HSB we trotlined out all the LMB and CC that we could catch.We had an abundance of stunted LMB and no spawn of the CC so I didn't think things were optimal for either.

We had tons of 2 to 4" BG and GS that I supposed were descended fron the Hybrid BG that had been stocked earlier.The BG were more of a nuisance than anything because they were so small and were real nippers when we would go swimming.

In May I put 120 HSB of 4 to 6" in a cage and got them acclimated to the pond for a few weeks. I lost about 6 while in the cage and let them go. I guess about 2/3 of them might have made it to present and I've tapered off on their feedings to 1X every other day to make them "Get to Work" on the smaller BG.

I have noticed that the bass we catch now are heavier with respect to their lengths, (right now we only keep LMB that are 14" or smaller) than before and we are catching more and more 8-9" BG where before we had runts.

While I agree that the HSB require feeding to really max them out , I see them as a asset to a recreational pond that everybody enjoys catching. I didn't get them with the intention of feeding them for the next 5 or 6 years, they are going to have be predators.

There's no question that in my HSB pond, they attack the forage with abandon and do the same to any fly/lure that looks the same. In another two or three weeks, the big show will begin. We like to take a seat on the pier and watch the HSB in open water schools/packs tear up the forage which largely consists of slowed Tilapia. Its awesome to watch and makes me glad to have them in my pond. If we can reduce or eliminate feeding them pellets, then they would be the perfect fish for my ponds.

mr willy,

Don't know if you tried these guys but here is the list of local HSB producers according to the Iowa DNR:

1) Mark Hughes, 563-847-2626, Dewitt,IA

2) Chuck Ehlers, 712-653-2484, Manning,IA

3) Kloubec Fisheries, 319-846-2077, Amana,IA

I have not dealt with any of them, so I cant comment on their service.

mr willy, I thought about my previous post. Both Jim Mannerud and I have lakes that are extremely predator heavy. That means there isn't much for anything to eat. The LMB, SMB etc. are more efficient at getting what prey there is. The HSB are raised on pellets so it takes them a while to learn how to catch prey and even then, they are at a disadvantage.

I think the point is well made that we should probably expect to feed the HSB, at least at the beginning. Another point is that we really haven't looked at how many HSB we should have in our lakes compared to LMB. Since it is so hard for me to get a permit for HSB, I got more than I would have otherwise.

I agree and disagree with Eastland. In most lakes, LMB are probably harder to catch than are HSB. In my experience, at least, HSB fight at least as well as LMB. Of course, SMB put both of them to shame. To me, the biggest pro for HSB is that they add more interest to fishing our lakes.