Forums36
Topics40,986
Posts558,203
Members18,514
|
Most Online3,612 Jan 10th, 2023
|
|
1 members (blueyss),
696
guests, and
194
robots. |
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 3,347 Likes: 99
Editor, Pond Boss Magazine Lunker
|
OP
Editor, Pond Boss Magazine Lunker
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 3,347 Likes: 99 |
All, I do some podcasts for http://www.bassedge.com and an upcoming question the host, Aaron Martin, wants to ask is, "Does energy produced by your electronics and emitted through the transducer impact the fish?" I honestly have no idea. I spent some time online and can't find any science about it. If anyone knows any facts, please post them. I don't really need a lot of speculation or opinions, but if anyone has any experiences or credible documentation, that would be helpful.
Teach a man to grow fish... He can teach to catch fish...
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 7,615 Likes: 5
Ambassador Field Correspondent Lunker
|
Ambassador Field Correspondent Lunker
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 7,615 Likes: 5 |
I don't really need a lot of speculation or opinions, but if anyone has any experiences or credible documentation, that would be helpful. Well that rules out any response that I would have given. Hi Bob, Ricki says Hi as well (no need to respond I know you're busy).
JHAP ~~~~~~~~~~ "My mind is a raging torrent, flooded with rivulets of thought cascading into a waterfall of creative alternatives." ...Hedley Lamarr (that's Hedley not Hedy)
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 4,596 Likes: 36
Lunker
|
Lunker
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 4,596 Likes: 36 |
Ice fisherman watch flashers to monitor their jigs and the fish that are about to bite the jig, as far as flashers go they don't seem to bother fish. Transducers might have a different sound production range than flashers though. The answer to your question Bob really comes down to whether or not the sound being emmitted by the tranducer occurs in a fishes detecable sound range or not, if the sound can be localized by the fish, and if it irritates the fish or not. Sound detection occurs at two levls in fish, the inner ear and the lateral line. The speed at which sound moves through water also poses in interesting dilema as far as being able to locate objects by where the sound originated from. As a general rule of thumb low pitched sounds are easier to localize than higher pitched ones, keep in mind that when talking about fish we are also talking about sounds that travel five times faster in water than it does the air, this would make sound localization much more difficult. The otolith may or may not be involved in sound localization in fish as a directional accelerator, more research needs to be done on this area. As a general rule of thumb I like to keep my boat out of the lateral lines sensitivty range which is roughly 25ft for LMB. How is that for a "I really don't know answer?"
Last edited by Shorty; 08/18/08 12:37 PM.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 20,043 Likes: 1
Hall of Fame Lunker
|
Hall of Fame Lunker
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 20,043 Likes: 1 |
I don't have any scientific information but I do know anglers that swear in some bodies of water where the fish are heavily pressured (ice fishing) the sound made by the transducer seems to spook the fish.
I have no doubts they can hear the sound -- at least in shallow water -- as sound is amplified in water and I can hear it if I place my ear on a transducer.
It seems plausible that fish that are heavily pressured and have experienced some catch and release could associate the sound with danger.
Last edited by Cecil Baird1; 08/19/08 05:46 AM.
If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,902
Lunker
|
Lunker
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,902 |
Last edited by Ric Swaim; 08/18/08 02:17 PM.
Pond Boss Subscriber & Books Owner
If you can read this ... thank a teacher. Since it's in english ... thank our military! Ric
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 3,794
Lunker
|
Lunker
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 3,794 |
I have seen balls of TFS under my boat thick enough to walk on without a stir - guides on Lake Texoma throw cast nets right on top of them.... Striped bass do not spook from electronics but allergic to trolling motors where transducer is mounted... IMO and experience - no problemo...
N.E. Texas 2 acre and 1/4 acre ponds Original george #173 (22 June 2002)
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,505
Ambassador Field Correspondent Hall of Fame Lunker
|
Ambassador Field Correspondent Hall of Fame Lunker
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,505 |
Does the electronics impact the fish??? I would agree with Cecil, that fish can most likely detect them if we can underwater. That doesnt mean they are all scared away by them, and some fish are curious and probably drawn to them. The answer I would have to say is IT ALL DEPENDS!
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 5,713 Likes: 35
Administrator Lunker
|
Administrator Lunker
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 5,713 Likes: 35 |
Bob,
When I put my UW-DVR in the water the fish are curious about the camera and will look into the lens, some will peck at it.
After the initial interest, they school up around the camera, seemingly waiting for an audition. When a large predator appears they scatter and then the predator and possibly a predator buddy or two will show up and hang out by the camera.
When anchored over structure with sonar running on both ends of my boat the fish school up under the sonars. This is great for vertical jigging.
There is nothing scientific about these observations, but I think fish may be somewhat attracted by electronics and not fearful of them as some suspect.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,902
Lunker
|
Lunker
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,902 |
Sorry Bob, I did quite a bit of searching but couldn't come up with anything specific to your ?. From what I read doing research there is growing interest in discovering the effects of not only electronics but all noise we are introducing into body’s of water on the under water environment. From boat motors to dipping a paddle into the water. Does it have an adverse effect on some tiny infrequent creature. Man is always the bad guy. But as is evident by the number of members to your PB forum we/man hold our ponds & the life in them in high regard spending much time & prob. too much money to make them as good a home for fish & such as they can be. That's where I would steer my answer.
Pond Boss Subscriber & Books Owner
If you can read this ... thank a teacher. Since it's in english ... thank our military! Ric
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 21,507 Likes: 269
Moderator Hall of Fame 2014 Lunker
|
Moderator Hall of Fame 2014 Lunker
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 21,507 Likes: 269 |
Bob I will check Fisheries 2nd tonight and reply. It has a chapter on acoustics in fisheries.
My observation is it does no harm. However I have no doubt that fish can be conditioned to avoid sonar. If , in a pond , they are caught under sonar repeatedly they will become conditioned to avoid it as a negative stimulus.
This study ison its way.
Transactions of the American Fisheries Society Induced Aggregation of Pond-Reared Rainbow Trout (Salmo gairdneri) Through Acoustic Conditioning ROBERT RILEY ABBOTT
Fisheries Research Institute, College of Fisheries, University of Washington, Seattle, Washington
Abstract.—About 90% of the rainbow trout (Salmo gairdneri) roaming freely in a large pond were conditioned to come to feed at the source of an underwater acoustic stimulus in about 45 trials. The stimulus was a 150-Hz, pure tone broadcasted continuously for one minute before and throughout feeding. The fish showed no tendency to discriminate between the conditioning tone and a 300-Hz tone produced in tests from the same sound source.
DOI: 10.1577/1548-8659(1972)101<35:IAOPRT>2.0.CO;2 Transactions of the American Fisheries Society 1972;101:35–43
It is clear that the fish detected an
acoustic phenomenon because of the startle
reaction on presentation of the acoustic stim-
ulus. It is also clear that some, if not all, of
the fish were conditioned to come to the
acoustic source. It may be argued that some
fish were conditioned to come to the acoustic
source, but that the rest were conditioned to
come to the feeding area when the other fish
exhibited a startle reaction. This possibility
seems unlikely; it is more likely that the be-
havior of the fast learners facilitated condi-
tioning of the rest."
Last edited by ewest; 08/19/08 09:11 AM.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 834
Lunker
|
Lunker
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 834 |
Cecil, "I have no doubts they can hear the sound -- at least in shallow water -- as sound is amplified in water and I can hear it if I place my ear on a transducer."
What kind of reading did you get on your depthfinder when you did this?
Good morning Dave, I've checked the ships systems, and everything appears to be running normally.
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 13,982 Likes: 280
Moderator Lunker
|
Moderator Lunker
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 13,982 Likes: 280 |
"Live like you'll die tomorrow, but manage your grass like you'll live forever." -S. M. Stirling
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,902
Lunker
|
Lunker
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,902 |
Look at this: http://www.fishchaser.net/report/index4.html Ultrasonic sound effect in fish breeding: A case study : Dr. S.N.Biswas* ; Sri D.Basu** ; Sri A.Roy** and Sri S. Ghosh***
In case of male exposed to ultrasonic sound, the testes on opening the belly was found to be fully ripe and bigger in shape in comparison to control and the quantity of milt squeezed out was also found to be significantly higher than the control. In case of female it responded easily with slight pressure over the belly and eggs come out without causing any injury to the ovary. No blood observed to be come out even at the end. The spawning fertilization and spawn production efficiency in comparison to control are shown in Table-2. Looks like maybe it has a positive affect?
Last edited by Ric Swaim; 08/19/08 12:19 PM.
Pond Boss Subscriber & Books Owner
If you can read this ... thank a teacher. Since it's in english ... thank our military! Ric
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 20,043 Likes: 1
Hall of Fame Lunker
|
Hall of Fame Lunker
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 20,043 Likes: 1 |
Cecil, "I have no doubts they can hear the sound -- at least in shallow water -- as sound is amplified in water and I can hear it if I place my ear on a transducer."
What kind of reading did you get on your depthfinder when you did this? Nothing. There's nothing in my head to bounce off of.
If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.
|
|
|
Moderated by Bill Cody, Bruce Condello, catmandoo, Chris Steelman, Dave Davidson1, esshup, ewest, FireIsHot, Omaha, Sunil, teehjaeh57
|
|