Pond Boss Forums STOCKING A NEW POND Types of fish to choose Fall Stocking

For those that have been following my pond renovation - the dam repairs and dirt work is finishing up this week. I am beginning to think (pray for rain) about if/what I should stock in the fall.

- My lake is 8.5 acres when full, currently drained down to about 1.5 - 2 acres.

- I will have a massive amount of cover, I mean massive.

- Verified that I had a LMB spawn this year.

- I have a healthy population of LMB, all caught were in the 90% weight ratio - largest caught was 4lbs, I have not fished heavily this summer.

- I have many medium-sized RES/BG up to 6 inches, didn’t catch any large ones - but missed a lot and feel they were too small to get the hook in their mouth.

- I spotted a school 2 inch of catfish earlier in the summer, not sure what type, finger crossed for CC. Need to catch some of these, will keep trying.

- Fished hard for Crappie, none caught. Crappie are common in a pond this size in East Texas, but so far no Crappie.

- My goal for the pond is to catch fish. Specifically LMB and BG. Having fun is more important than size on the LMB, but I would love to have panfish for eating. Right now Im thinking of raising large Coppernose BG. An occasional Catfish (Channel or Blue) is fine, but could live without. Primarily want my kids to be able to "catch fish".

I am considering whether to start stocking forage base and/or large BG this fall or wait until spring and see what happens after the lake fills.

Any thoughts/comments/ideas are welcome.

Gator

Gator,

I welcome the chance to comment. You are a terrific member of this Forum whom I respect greatly.

You have a unique opportunity right now, before the fall rains start, to get your project off to the best start. The rains will start soon, so you have about a month left based on past history to make final adjustments.

My comments will not surprise you.

First, if you have any doubt, any doubt at all, about the possibility of crappie or bullheads (spotting a school of 2 inch cats would be scary to me), I would consider complete fish removal before the rains start. That's a drastic measure, I know, but you have seen and I have experienced first hand the efffects of both of those species in ponds. I would not take the chance since you are down to 1.5 acres of water anyway. Starting from a clean slate would give you complete control over what is in your pond, without having doubts.

Next, depending on what you do about the first suggestion, you need to address the forage base. The forage base is critical, as you well know. If you start clean, you can get an absolutely tremendous forage base established this fall in preparation for stocking predators next spring. If you do not start clean, I'm afraid that some, perhaps much of your added forage will be consumed by existing predators. With the pond drawn down, forage has less places to hide.

Next, you said "catching fish" was your goal. Gator, I'm a straight shooter and write only from my experience base, and the things that I and a few others have said about the difficulty of catching LMB is very real. As has been stated, it does depend on fishing pressure (and fishing methods, thank you Sunil), genetics, and other variables. These should be seriously considered if you decide to rely on LMB as your primary or only sport fish.

An alternative to consider is the HSB. They offer you none of the problems of the LMB associated with intense management, catchability, stunting, overpopulating, etc. If you have larege open areas you may want to consider a combo LMB for shallows and HSB for deep open area fishing. I have that in a 4 acre pond and it works well, except for the problems noted with LMB.

Lastly, I would be remiss if I didn't comment on our Pond cleanup maintenance crews...Tilapia and grass carp. You should stock a few grass carp this fall, for preventative measures. Do not wait until you have a weed problem and have to stock fourty or fifty of them. Stock 8 to 10 now and avoid the problem. Every two years add another few depending on needs. Make sure you have fence gates to keep them in.

Tilapia, I simply would not be without. I honestly believe they are the single most effective pond management tool available today. They provide forage, algae control, bottom clean-up and some weed control, plus are great eating. If you do not use them, you are missing out on a great resource.

I appreciate the chance to comment and hope I have given you some things to consider. I write nothing that I have not experienced personnally, and I am not bound to any "tried and true".

Gator,
I'm sure you are relieved to get the renovation done! Sounds like you took advantage of the low water & made lots of holding places for fish!

I don't recall what you have in your smaller ponds. Would it be possible to use one for a grow out pond for panfish & FH minnows?

LMB is the best predator for your panfish. You might consider going bass heavy to produce lots of big eating size BG & a high catch rate for LMB. Granted the bass won't grow as big but a few will slip through to grow to larger size & if you change your goals later you can simply remove a number of small bass to get their average size up.
The grow out pond stocked now with BG & FH minnows will maybe have fish big enough to put in the main pond late next spring.
Just some thoughts.

Going Bass heavy as Ric suggests would also be good insurance against Crappies or excessive catfish reproduction (especially if Bullheads). If you KNOW you have problems before the rains come, renovating now would tend to make more sense. If you only suspect possible problems and going Bass heavy is amenable to you, I'd leave what you've got in there and proceed. Sooner or later you (we all, I admit with reluctance) will probably get problem species introduced by one or more of the 8,000 methods we have discussed here. But if you're Bass heavy to start with, you should be able to manage around them.

However, Bass heavy can include HSB. Your fish populations should be expanding after the pond refills, so you have available lebensraum which HSB can easily fill. If you have so much cover, they may not do very well if you don't feed them (but, hey, who wouldn't feed the fish they love?).

I think you've got great things ahead of you with your rejuvenated pond!

Thanks for the suggestions.

I am (currently) thinking that I will NOT completely drain the lake:

1. My lake is fed by a creek, so, I will eventually inherit whatever is coming down that creek.

2. Thus far I have found LMB and RES/HBG...I feel whoever owned the lake before me had at least some sense of what "not" to stock. I am hopeful those were Channels I saw earlier this year + CC is common around here. (There were a couple of 2lb LMB feeding on the school - so they may have been lunch anyway)

3. I feel going Bass Heavy + large BG is the track I am on.

4. It somehow seems wasteful to knock out the existing healthy LMB population...I'm catching 4lb-ers and feel there must be bigger ones in there...

Let me ask a couple of questions with regard to moving forward without a complete drain down and going LMB heavy + Large BG:

- Given my current draw down situation, there has been little cover and the LMB have been feasting. As my lake rises, the cover ratio will change drastically. Help me think trough what will happen to my current LMB and RES/BG population into next spring. Seems the LMB may go a little hungry and the RES/BG will catch a break?

- With regard to forage base, due to exiting LMB population, I should wait until the "new" cover is available to stock BG? What is the cutoff for fall stocking of large BG?

- I could wait and do nothing until next spring when the lake is full again. How will my population change without stocking?

I love the idea of Grass Carp and Tilapia. Sounds like I can stock the Grass Carp now or should I give the lake some time to fill? Tilapia next spring.

I like the idea of HSB too, those buggers catch/eat well. Lebensraum, yes, lebensraum - I will have enough lebensraum for HSB!

Grow-out ponds. This is a possibility. I currently have 2 more small ponds, 1 is a mud puddle (due to the drought). The other is about 50' x 100' and in good shape. I could use it for something...it has a resident 3.5 LMB that needs to be relocated to the big pond + HBG.

Gator

Gator,

With an incoming creek, I wouldn't drain it either. Whatever is in that drainage will eventually be in your pond. Good luck.

Gator,

I'll take a shot...with your lake way down, I would guess the forage base is/has been taking a real beating and the LMB are very happy. The lake level will probably begin to rise significantly coincident with the advent of cool weather. The metabolism of the LMB will slow then also. I would not add any BG until after that slowdown happens and then only adult BG. If you stock Tilapia in good numbers next spring your forage base will rebound very quickly. The pressure will be off the BG and the LMB will be fat and happy again. That's my story an I'm sticken to it. Actually its a guess at best.

Other question, don't handle the grass carp until cooler weather...around Oct. would be my recommendation.

ML,

Thanks for the feedback.

When you say large BG, define large in inches + how many per acre would you stock in fall? Im thinking the largest I can buy is what I should shoot for here.

Also, help me make the conection, spring Tilapia stocking = forage base rebound. As in the Tilapia will offset BG becoming meals for LMB?

THANKS!

Gator

Gator,

Here's the connection...the Tilapia will take the pressure off the BG. By that I mean, your BG population will actually increase in size and numbers, at least that's what happened in all three ponds that I had Tilapia in last year, because the predators have an even better, higher protein (proven fact) source of food.

That's why, if you are going to stock Tilapia next spring, I would not mess with any small BG this fall. You will have abundant small BG next spring in time for the LMB metabolism increase. Stock the very best large BG you can find. By large I mean over 6 inches. You may have to find a friend with a pond who will let you remove a few. I would try to find coppernose if possible, but certainly pick the very best ones you can find. They will be your future forage base. Stock as many of these as you can reasonably find....I would target for at least 30 of them, many more if possible.

...and yes, I'm a mad scientist..when it comes to ponds.

ML,

Thanks for the comments. I like to bounce things around a bit before making decisions. My contractor JUST CALLED, the dozer work is finished! Yippee, now..cmon rain. Looks like I am headed for a light stocking of big CNBG this fall after the pond is full.

Gator

Gator,
I suggest you have the lake electrofished to know exactly what you have. Here's why. First, it takes away all the guesswork. You will know the ratios of fish, size classes, species, etc. Then, a good biologist can tell you what to expect from existing fish when the lake fills. From that, you can design a thoughtful stocking protocol which stands a better chance of succeeding. While all the advice above is solid, all of it is based on "if" your lake has.....
I'll never forget a lake in the Texas panhandle in 1986. The landowner called, told me the dam had burst, the lake sat shallow for two years, then he repaired the dam. It had been a year since the dam was repaired and the lake had refilled. He wanted to stock this newly renovated 7 acre lake with fish. He called, placed and order for $4,000 worth of fish. As I thought, my mind could not escape the possibility some of his fish had survived the ordeal. I suggested we electrofish. We did. The lake had completely repopulated itself, complete with three year classes of bass and six size classes of bluegill. Fresh water triggered spawns from a cooped up fish population, and within a year, that lake was thriving. But, I have seen other similar lakes, when left to their own resources, repopulate in ways that landowner didn't want.
So, consider a few hundred bucks on an electrofishing survey.

Bob,

Thanks for your comments. I appreciate your expereince. Granted the "if" factor in my plan introduces a degree of risk. Can you tell me how much an Electro Analyis will cost? And who in East Texas would do those...etc?

The concern I have over Electro Analysis is based on some of the posts here - it seems to have mixed results. I read things like "it didnt up all the fish" or "we didnt get very many x type fish, they were too deep". does it really get everything?

BTW, does everything include...turtles, snakes, GATORS (I cant seem to locate my gator any longer)?

Gator