Pond Boss Magazine
http://www.pondboss.com/images/userfiles/image/20130301193901_6_150by50orangewhyshouldsubscribejpeg.jpg
Advertisment
Newest Members
Mjfrey, emactxag, thoki, VitalinA23, Farmpond5343
15686 Registered Users
Forum Stats
15686 Members
36 Forums
36099 Topics
491342 Posts

Max Online: 1210 @ 08/23/18 11:01 PM
Top Posters
esshup 24029
Cecil Baird1 20043
ewest 19590
Dave Davidson1 13600
Bill Cody 12520
Who's Online
4 registered (Smoke68, bcraley, bigpullerman, Zep), 138 Guests and 225 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Topic Options
#126098 - 07/22/08 02:47 PM MUDDY and aeration ?
Dr. Don Offline
Lunker

Registered: 07/17/07
Posts: 12
Loc: Washington State
Questions: My pond is about 2/3 of an acre. I have been battling muddy water for some time. added a 40lb bag of alum and it worked pretty well for a short time. I should first addmit I have way to many fish in the pond so I know the activity is more than likely kicking up the mud. The question is when adding the alum or gypsum do you continue with aeration or turn it off once the water has mixed the alum in well? My next question, is ag lime just the lime you can buy at Home depot its about all we have out here and how much do I add?

Top
#126161 - 07/22/08 10:50 PM Re: MUDDY and aeration ? [Re: Dr. Don]
Rainman Offline
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Hall of Fame

Lunker

Registered: 06/06/07
Posts: 6976
Loc: St Louis, MO area
Dr Don, ag lime is the stuff you buy at home depot. Hydrated lime is what you want to use with alum. Ag lime is too slow to raise ph.

Alum won't mix with the water much at all except from wave action in 3' of water or less--no good for anything deeper.
Alum should be mixed into a slurry and either sprayed(best way) or mixed into a prop wash. It is best to turn off the aerator for 24 hours or so to let the flock fall to the bottom.

Last, a 2/3 acre pond will need from 150to 400lbs to do much good. Using less than what takes ALL the suspended clay out of the water column will allow it to resuspend.
_________________________
Rainman

www.TilapiaStockers.com


Top
#126235 - 07/23/08 12:32 PM Re: MUDDY and aeration ? [Re: Rainman]
Dr. Don Offline
Lunker

Registered: 07/17/07
Posts: 12
Loc: Washington State
Rainman, thank you for the quick reply, when you said 150 to 400lbs I assume your talking about the alum and not the lime? The alum I used did dispurse quite readily. Was a little nervous about the PH so I just played around with a bag or two for an experiment. Used gypsum last year about a thousand pounds or so and it worked a little but not much for the effort the alum works a lot better with even the little amount used. If the right amount of alum is used and it works will it keep working or will the clay just get stired up again in another month or two with fish and water circulation?

Top
#126279 - 07/23/08 08:22 PM Re: MUDDY and aeration ? [Re: Dr. Don]
Rainman Offline
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Hall of Fame

Lunker

Registered: 06/06/07
Posts: 6976
Loc: St Louis, MO area
Dr. Don, Yes, I am talking about alum. If hydrated lime is needed. add the lime at one half the weight of the alum used. Contrary to popular belief, the alum does not disperse into the water. It dissolves but settles to the bottom, providing no real benefit other than keeping a small area from suspending. Read this link and it will explain why the clay suspends along with the need to mix a slurry and spray....
Langston Univ.

I hope this helps. I wish I'd found this info before I wasted 600+ pounds of alum......

Ps. some studies say alum lasts to 15 years in a pond but adding more negatively charged clay from runoff can neutrilize the benefit rapidly.


Edited by Rainman (07/23/08 08:24 PM)
Edit Reason: added PS
_________________________
Rainman

www.TilapiaStockers.com


Top
#126375 - 07/24/08 03:08 PM Re: MUDDY and aeration ? [Re: Rainman]
Dr. Don Offline
Lunker

Registered: 07/17/07
Posts: 12
Loc: Washington State
Thanks for the info and the link, you've been extremely helpful. When it comes to the ag lime I was wondering because its slower acting if it would be good for long term liming? In our area there isnt any limestone available and our lakes typically run more on the acidic side. That combined with a shorter growing season I need every advantage to grow a decent sized bass. Caught a couple of nice BG last night on yellow fly. I'll try and post a pic as soon as I figure out how

Top
#126386 - 07/24/08 05:49 PM Re: MUDDY and aeration ? [Re: Dr. Don]
ewest Offline
Moderator
Hall of Fame 2014

Lunker

Registered: 03/08/05
Posts: 19590
Loc: Miss.
If you have low alkalinity ag lime is a very good addition. It can help with turbidity. For the best info on turbidity in ponds see ;

SRAC 460-471; 4600-4699 -- Water Quality - http://srac.tamu.edu/index.cfm?catid=25 - Control of clay turbidity




Edited by ewest (07/24/08 05:50 PM)
_________________________















Top
#126523 - 07/25/08 02:51 PM Re: MUDDY and aeration ? [Re: ewest]
Rainman Offline
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Hall of Fame

Lunker

Registered: 06/06/07
Posts: 6976
Loc: St Louis, MO area
Dr. Don, one of the great things about calcium carbonate ag lime (dolomitic) is that it's impossible to overdose a pond with it. The highest the ph can go is the ph of the lime, usually 7.8 to 8.4, which is a safe range even at the high end. Since it is not very water soluable, there is no danger of a rapid ph change like you will get from slaked (hydrated) lime which is extremely water soluable. Too many variables come in to play to say how long a lime treatment will last but generally it will last 3 to 10 years.
_________________________
Rainman

www.TilapiaStockers.com


Top
#126835 - 07/28/08 06:15 PM Re: MUDDY and aeration ? [Re: Rainman]
Russ Offline
Lunker

Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 1011
Loc: Ulster Park, NY
Don,

A link to a good post by Rainman. Also in this post is information posted by Ewest.

http://www.pondboss.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=124005#Post124005


Russ

Top
#126903 - 07/29/08 12:52 PM Re: MUDDY and aeration ? [Re: Russ]
Dr. Don Offline
Lunker

Registered: 07/17/07
Posts: 12
Loc: Washington State
Thanks for all the advise gentlemen. I havent done a real application of the alum yet I just now got the hydrated lime. In the post that you've recomended and sugested yourselves pre mixing the alum into a slurry is the best way then spraying it. I'm trying to come up with the best way to do that. Has anyone ever tried a texter gun for sheet-rock for blasting the alum into their ponds? lol

Top
#126910 - 07/29/08 02:05 PM Re: MUDDY and aeration ? [Re: Dr. Don]
TOM G Offline
Lunker

Registered: 12/28/06
Posts: 2086
Loc: Dawson Tx
Dr Don,if you can dream it up Im sure someone here has tried it. Or at least seriosly thought about it \:D
_________________________
I subscribe
Some days you get the dog,and some days he gets you.Every dog has his day,and sometimes he has two!


Top
#127011 - 07/30/08 12:01 PM Re: MUDDY and aeration ? [Re: Dr. Don]
bobad Offline
Lunker

Registered: 06/02/05
Posts: 2365
Loc: Eunice, Louisiana
 Originally Posted By: Dr. Don
Thanks for all the advise gentlemen. I havent done a real application of the alum yet I just now got the hydrated lime. In the post that you've recomended and sugested yourselves pre mixing the alum into a slurry is the best way then spraying it. I'm trying to come up with the best way to do that. Has anyone ever tried a texter gun for sheet-rock for blasting the alum into their ponds? lol


If you just have a sack or 2 to apply, that could work pretty good.

However, I have repeatedly applied alum by just dumping it in a barren corner of the pond. It completely dissolves and disappears within 2 hours, and resulted in zero fish kills. I found that it dissolves at the same rate as table salt. A teaspoon of either poured in a pile in 1 corner of a shallow pan of water dissolves in about 1 hour. The alum taste is just as strong in the far corner as in the corner where it was piled up, just as salt would do. That's because alum is chemically very active, and diffuses very quickly. You may remember the skunk odor diffusion experiment in school. You uncork some skunk scent in the corner of a large room, and it travels 50' in less than 5 seconds with no wind to aid dispersal. Within 30 seconds, the skunk odor is equal in all corners of the room because of molecular diffusion.

Hydrated lime is a lot different. The particles are large, and do not readily dissolve. Mixing and stirring it helps to dissolve it a little faster, spreading it widely helps it dissolve even faster, but exposes the fish to more of it. So there's no perfect way to apply it.

Whether or not you mix the lime, most of it quickly sinks to the bottom, making a thin white layer. This layer of hydrated lime takes days to weeks to completely dissolve, depending on how hard or soft your pond water is,,, and of course how thin the layer of lime sediment is. Ideally, you should spray a little lime stirred up in a lot of water, and broadcast it widely in barren areas. Realistically, that's very hard to do. I wound up spreading several sacks of it with a 5gal bucket, just tossing it dry in a barren area of my pond to avoid fish stress. I had 1 floating small BG, so it was very acceptable. After 6-8 weeks, there are still a few streaks of lime visible on the bottom, but in my experience it will eventually dissolve.
_________________________
Shrimp

Top
#127361 - 08/01/08 01:29 PM Re: MUDDY and aeration ? [Re: bobad]
Dr. Don Offline
Lunker

Registered: 07/17/07
Posts: 12
Loc: Washington State
Well, yesterday afternoon I mixed about 150lb of alum into the propwash. I was surprised how quickly it started to work. I also added about 50lb of hydrated lime. About an hour into this operation I had some big trout circling around the top of the pond 2-4 a couple of them well over 10lbs. They looked pretty rough so I wasnt concerned to much about loosing them I imagine the ph change stired em up a little, but as of this morning no dead fish or circling trout. The PH test kit I have was giving me to many different reading so I'm getting another one today. I put the trout in the pond so when friends come over they can feel like real anglers and its keep em away from the bass lol. These trout are so dumb you could fish em with a pitch fork. I'm lookin forward to improved bass fishin with the clearer water. I really want to thank everyone for the help. I got a subcription to the mag. The pond boss and forum rocks !!!

Top
#127604 - 08/02/08 08:12 PM Re: MUDDY and aeration ? [Re: Dr. Don]
Rainman Offline
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Hall of Fame

Lunker

Registered: 06/06/07
Posts: 6976
Loc: St Louis, MO area
Dr. Don, the "underwater terrain" created by the floculation is pretyy cool, huh?

Got pics??
_________________________
Rainman

www.TilapiaStockers.com


Top

Today's Birthdays
Brett, CATMANDEW, Dennis, RERBABS
Recent Posts
My pond full of outcast
by bigpullerman
Today at 01:25 PM
They're back!
by Zep
Today at 11:24 AM
Pole saw
by JKS3613
Today at 09:48 AM
What did you do at your pond today?
by Flame
Today at 07:56 AM
What a difference a year makes.
by Audrey
Today at 04:56 AM
What are the chances?
by Audrey
Today at 04:52 AM
It's that time of year, again....
by Audrey
Today at 04:48 AM
Hall of Fame 2018
by Pond Boss
Yesterday at 10:50 AM
Flocculant effective clearing
by DannyMac
Yesterday at 10:14 AM
Fish delivery
by Mfitzs70
Yesterday at 06:40 AM
Newly Uploaded Images
My recent haul
Hello From Lufkin Texas!
Cant seem to Identify what this is.  Any thoughts?
Evaluating and adjusting Fish populations and ID
Vegetation ID
Our new pond

2014 POND BOSS INC. all rights reserved USA and Worldwide