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#99442 - 10/12/07 11:28 PM Re: Possible Summer job [Re: ewest]
Chris Steelman Offline

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 Originally Posted By: ewest
Then send it to them in draft form for their comments.


What is draft form?

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#99446 - 10/12/07 11:53 PM Re: Possible Summer job [Re: Chris Steelman]
Theo Gallus Offline
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#99469 - 10/13/07 10:51 AM Re: Possible Summer job [Re: Theo Gallus]
ewest Offline
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Just put "Draft for Discussion Purposes" in bold at the top. That way they will know it is not set in stone but a work in progress seeking their comments.

On the ball there Theo. \:o \:D


Edited by ewest (10/13/07 10:52 AM)
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#99470 - 10/13/07 10:54 AM Re: Possible Summer job [Re: Theo Gallus]
Sunil Offline
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Draft form means it's not the final version of what you are submitting.

That's the "dictionary" version of draft. What it really means is that you have not committed to anything, but more so, things can be changed to reflect yours and the customers desires.

When you send something labeled as a "draft," it means you have "wiggle room" to play with.

Another way to look at things is this: In business, you never want to leave change on the table. For example, if your potential customer wants to pay $5,000.00 this summer and is happy with that amount, I wouldn't go in and tell him you can do everything for $4,000.00. You'd be leaving $1,000.00 on the table for no reason. This is assuming there is no competition for the gig.

Let me also be very clear - I'm not at all talking about gouging the client.

Here is another example on the pricing of services.

At one end of the spectrum, you have "cost plus" pricing. This means that if your cost to do something is $100.00, you charge the customer $125.00. So basically, you make around 25% profit or $25.00. Use whatever % you can, and that is the "plus" in cost plus pricing.

The other end of the spectrum is value pricing. This means that you try to charge the client whatever the "value" is of the project. Let me give you an example from my end. We inspect large plant equipment. Say that I can inspect a "widget" for $5,000.00 and that is my cost plus some profit for my company. But look at the other end...if that "widget" fails during production, the client loses $100,000.00/hour in fixed costs and lost production, and the plant will be down for a minimum of 10 hours. So the VALUE to the client could be seen as $1 Million dollars which is what he'll lose if the "widget" fails. Now that does not mean he'll pay me $1 Million to test his "widget" and let him know its good, but he might pay some amount less than that, BUT way more than my "cost plus" pricing of $5,000.00.

If you put cost plus pricing on the left end of the spectrum, and extreme value pricing on the right side of the spectrum, I feel the best place to be is just right of center.

At the very left side of the spectrum, or cost plus, you will land more jobs, but make less profit, and to make more profit, you have to do more work, and eventually, it's more work than you can do yourself. At the very right, you will have a tougher time convincing clients to pay the full "value" amounts, so you'll land less jobs, but when you land one, you make a lot more profit. So in between is where to be in my book.

The sales process to be at center or right of center of the pricing spectrum is a little more involved, but it is not hard to do. Learn it now, and you'll be successful in everything that you do, business-wise, whatever you do.

This is also a major point that I forgot to mention earlier - Make darn sure that you are speaking to the decision maker. If you are not, you are at an immediate disadvantage. If you don't know if you are speaking to the decision maker, ask "who is the decision maker?"

The Board of Directors of the Steelman-Slymer House of Fish Squeezing & Supply is waiting for news that this deal has been bagged & tagged.


Edited by Sunil (10/13/07 12:34 PM)
Edit Reason: Because a mind is a terrible thing.
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#99480 - 10/13/07 12:29 PM Re: Possible Summer job [Re: Sunil]
Chris Steelman Offline

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Ok, that makes sense. Dont set anything in stone right now to allow for negotiations.

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#99481 - 10/13/07 12:31 PM Re: Possible Summer job [Re: Chris Steelman]
Sunil Offline
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Well, you've demonstrated that you can say, in one sentence, what took me a few paragraphs to write. Thanks.

Well done, Young Man!
_________________________
Excerpt from Robert Crais' "The Monkey's Raincoat:"
"She took another microscopic bite of her sandwich, then pushed it away. Maybe she absorbed nutrients from her surroundings."


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#99482 - 10/13/07 12:34 PM Re: Possible Summer job [Re: Sunil]
Chris Steelman Offline

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Loc: Red River County,Tx
Short, but sweet.

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#99573 - 10/15/07 07:10 AM Re: Possible Summer job [Re: ewest]
Dave Davidson1 Offline
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Registered: 01/04/06
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Loc: Hurst & Bowie, Texas
RT, nope, but I've been there.
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It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.

Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP

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#100465 - 10/25/07 08:46 PM Re: Possible Summer job [Re: Dave Davidson1]
Chris Steelman Offline

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Registered: 02/26/06
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Loc: Red River County,Tx
I just talked to her today and she gave me a list of things to look at.

Identifying and controlling aquatic vegetation

She said they had waterleaf, lily pads, and moss(I am guessing it is FA). She said that her father used eraser on 2/3 of the pond twice with good success.

I can identify the plants and see about controlling them.

Fish and stocking

She gave me some basic info about stocking. A few years ago they stocked the main pond with bass, catfish, crappie, bluegill, minnows, and tadpoles. They stocked the same species of fish twice since the initial stocking. There are catfish over ten pounds that come up to the feeder. One year ago they stocked 36 6 in. catfish. Her father said that the bass look healthy but are not over 1 1/2 pounds.

She said she wanted me to check on getting a survey done with a shocking boat. I am going to contact Todd Overton to see about getting the survey done. He is not very far from their property.

I was thinking about starting a feeding program and fertilizing next spring. Anybody else have some recommendations?

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#100466 - 10/25/07 08:53 PM Re: Possible Summer job [Re: Chris Steelman]
Dave Davidson1 Offline
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Registered: 01/04/06
Posts: 13356
Loc: Hurst & Bowie, Texas
Suggestions? Ask about their goals and expectations.
_________________________
It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.

Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP

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#100469 - 10/25/07 09:01 PM Re: Possible Summer job [Re: Dave Davidson1]
Chris Steelman Offline

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Loc: Red River County,Tx
I will try and get her father's phone number so I can talk to him about it.

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#100556 - 10/26/07 09:35 PM Re: Possible Summer job [Re: Chris Steelman]
Chris Steelman Offline

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Registered: 02/26/06
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Loc: Red River County,Tx
I talked to Mr. Brown this evening about his expectations for the main pond.

First off, he would like the pond to look good. A cabin overlooks the pond and he would like to a nice view of the pond.

Next he would like to have good fishing for his grandkids. We talked about getting a survey done and he thought that that was a good idea, so I am going to call Overton's to talk about getting a electrofishing survey.

He also said that there are two small ponds close to the main pond. I suggested we make these forage ponds and he was interested in that too.

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#100577 - 10/27/07 08:31 AM Re: Possible Summer job [Re: Chris Steelman]
ewest Offline
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Be real sure about a fertilization program before you start one. Once started it must be continued year to year or you will be vary disappointed with the negative fish results. Without ample water they can also result in a mess from a "look good" perspective. Soil samples tested for water quality are a must.
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#100620 - 10/27/07 10:55 PM Re: Possible Summer job [Re: ewest]
Chris Steelman Offline

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Registered: 02/26/06
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Loc: Red River County,Tx
 Originally Posted By: ewest
Be real sure about a fertilization program before you start one. Once started it must be continued year to year or you will be vary disappointed with the negative fish results. Without ample water they can also result in a mess from a "look good" perspective. Soil samples tested for water quality are a must.


I may be trying to be to ambitious with a fertilization program. I will think of some other ideas.

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#100630 - 10/28/07 09:48 AM Re: Possible Summer job [Re: Chris Steelman]
ewest Offline
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Chris it is very good to think ambitiously and then apply the science to see if the thinking fits the situation. \:\)
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#119382 - 05/20/08 11:51 AM Re: Possible Summer job [Re: ewest]
Chris Steelman Offline

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Registered: 02/26/06
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Loc: Red River County,Tx
I won't be working in Texas this summer. I ended up getting a job with the school and will be helping grad students with their projects and with an undergrad project.

The project I will be working on most of the time will be looking for Stargazing Darters around the state. We will be using trawls, seines and electrofishing. We will be gone about a week at a time so I think my redear project will have to wait until school starts.

The undergrad project is working with zebra mussels and larval fish. Entergy, the company the owns the nuclear plant outside of town, gives us a grant to sample Lake Dardanelle. We go out once a week to collect larval fish and every other week for zebra mussles. The net we use for larval fish is a meter in diameter and is about 10 feet long. The net gets smaller towards the end and the sample collects in a small container.

Here is a picture of a 3lb. catfish we caught in the net last night. One of the guys has been working on the project for 3 years and has never caught a fish this big in the net.



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#119396 - 05/20/08 12:59 PM Re: Possible Summer job [Re: Chris Steelman]
Sunil Offline
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Outstanding, Young Man!

I can only assume you are billing out at a premium of say $87.50/hour plus all benefits.
_________________________
Excerpt from Robert Crais' "The Monkey's Raincoat:"
"She took another microscopic bite of her sandwich, then pushed it away. Maybe she absorbed nutrients from her surroundings."


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#127260 - 07/31/08 11:07 PM Re: Possible Summer job [Re: Sunil]
Chris Steelman Offline

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Registered: 02/26/06
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Loc: Red River County,Tx
I heard today that my school received a very large grant from the EPA to sample 78 streams across the state of Arkansas. We are going to be sampling every weekend from the middle of August through the beginning of October. We will also sample all of next summer. This is a nation wide project so I bet that Dr. Willis has heard of it.

For the Zebra mussel project that is going on right now, if all goes to plan I should be in charge of it starting next summer. Of the two guy's ahead of me, one is graduating in the spring and the other is not allowed to work during the school year. This is excellent learning experience and will look great on a resume for a job or Grad school.

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#127261 - 07/31/08 11:15 PM Re: Possible Summer job [Re: Chris Steelman]
Sunil Offline
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Outstanding Young Blood!
_________________________
Excerpt from Robert Crais' "The Monkey's Raincoat:"
"She took another microscopic bite of her sandwich, then pushed it away. Maybe she absorbed nutrients from her surroundings."


Top
#127266 - 07/31/08 11:51 PM Re: Possible Summer job [Re: Sunil]
davatsa Offline
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Registered: 04/14/03
Posts: 1256
Loc: San Antonio, TX
Awesome, Chris! Keep us posted on how it goes.
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#127267 - 07/31/08 11:56 PM Re: Possible Summer job [Re: Chris Steelman]
Bruce Condello Offline
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 Originally Posted By: Chris Steelman
I heard today that my school received a very large grant from the EPA to sample 78 streams across the state of Arkansas. We are going to be sampling every weekend from the middle of August through the beginning of October. We will also sample all of next summer. This is a nation wide project so I bet that Dr. Willis has heard of it.

For the Zebra mussel project that is going on right now, if all goes to plan I should be in charge of it starting next summer. Of the two guy's ahead of me, one is graduating in the spring and the other is not allowed to work during the school year. This is excellent learning experience and will look great on a resume for a job or Grad school.


You're building all sorts of great things for that resume. Keep it up.

...and do some butt kickin' on school studies this fall!
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#127272 - 08/01/08 12:30 AM Re: Possible Summer job [Re: Bruce Condello]
Shawn Banks Offline
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Registered: 08/20/03
Posts: 288
Loc: Northwest MO
Chris,

I spent a few years conducting research on crayfish life history strategies and madtom habitat associations in the Ozarks streams of Missouri. Those were great times for me. I can really appreciate the work you are performing. Your experience with both non-game and sport fishes will make you very marketable.

What you learn in the books in very important, but what you learn and experience in the field is priceless.

Have you had any madtom encounters? They are pretty cool little catfish. We studied the slenders, Ozarks, checkered, and stonecat species. You probably know this, but madtoms are Ictalurids belonging to the genus Noturus. Keep your eyes open for them. If you enjoy research, there are lots of opportunities involving madtoms. When compared to most fish species, very little is known about the madtoms. I'm interested to hear if you've been able to sample to any of them.
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#127274 - 08/01/08 12:47 AM Re: Possible Summer job [Re: Shawn Banks]
Chris Steelman Offline

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Registered: 02/26/06
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Loc: Red River County,Tx
I have seen a lot of madtoms. I had one in my aquarium last year.

This year we have collected most of them while backpack electrofishing in shallow riffles at night. I think we have collected 3 or 4 different species. They are really cool. You just have to be careful about the venom in the spines. The two guys that worked with me both got stuck in the first week of sampling so I was careful the rest of the summer when handling them.

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#127289 - 08/01/08 06:41 AM Re: Possible Summer job [Re: Chris Steelman]
Brettski Offline
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Chris-man,
You add a wonderful facet to the Pond Boss jewel. All us old guys (and young guys, too) get to watch this on-line movie about the making of young Lusk....except it's you this time. The popcorn and jujubee calories are killin' me, but they're worth every thread about your progress.
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#127321 - 08/01/08 09:41 AM Re: Possible Summer job [Re: Brettski]
burgermeister Offline
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Registered: 02/27/05
Posts: 4025
Loc: Houston, Tx.
Way to go, Chris. Folks, I was talking to Young Blood at the conf. about this very nuke plant, lake and the work he has been doing. Very impressive. Chris, did you pick this school because it has a superior reputation?
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