Pond Boss Forums STOCKING A NEW POND Types of fish to choose "Other" Fish

Plenty of hot coffee has got my mind going this morning.

Anyone hear of stocking grass pickerel or spotted bass? These fish are among the most vicious little fighters I have ever hooked, and deserve consideration. I assume the spotted bass would breed and feed just like LMB. I don't guess grass pickrel would over populate. At least, I have never seen it happen in the wild. I would think they would be excellent for helping control small BG and crappie overpopulation without creating a monster.

Instead of grass carp for weed control, how about pacu? I'm sure they would die off in the fall, but they're cheap to buy.

Thoughts?

I don't know much in real experience or much of anything on grass pickerel. But I do know that spotted bass if they spawn can be a real nuisance. Stunting real easy and taking years longer to reach the same size as a largemouth from the same year class. They have a smaller mouth but I believe their small overall size and slow growth is more of an issue. They also go deeper depth wise, don't know if they prefer deeper or are just forced to go deeper, than smallmouth and largemouth. If they were harvested enough and well fed growth might be better.

What you need is an expert with some real experience on both species. Maybe this bump will work.

I have about a hundred pacu and they eat every vegetable that I throw in plus pellet food, I have caught them on cabbage and cucumbers. If that's not enough they eat the water plants. I would not exactly call them aggressive eaters but they will out eat anything else in your pond if you are feeding pellets. I have not seen them chase other fish away from food they just crowd in and eat. In my experience they get big fast, I planted 3 months ago at 1 3/4" they are now 11-12" at about a pound. A friend has two year olds at 4-5 lbs and I think Don Smith told me his 3 year olds were 12 lbs.

You got my curiousity up...which is easy to do when it comes to fish and ponds. A little research on Pacu showed they are very temperature intolerant..72 to 83 degrees is their range, according to some net sites. Not a good range for Texas. We go straight from 50 degrees to 90 degrees, it seems. With Tilapia, at least I can get 7 to 9 months of life, Pacu wouldn't last very long here I'm afraid.

Bobad, Since the Pacu are cheap and will dye out overwinter should be an easy experiment for you this year! I've got Pacu in my pond and my experience is they hardly ever stop eating when a food source is available. In their native range of S.America locals often will not harvest them in the rain season as they are too fatty from being able to eat the limitless flooded grasses. I have a sixteen foot wide band around my pond that floods in the rainy season and have noticed the same about the fish being extra fatty during that time. I have tried planting lotus in my pond a couple of times and am sure it was those damned Pacu that totally destroyed it each time! As Rad had said earlier I have some that are over 12 lbs. ... and the species is no longer on my catch and release list.

Meadowlark,If you have LMB that are surviving the summers in your pond then Pacu will have no problem on the high end range, but it would be unwise to release them before the median temperature reaches 68 degrees. The Tilapia do eat grasses also, but often prefer the decaying parts and a large portion of Tilapia food is filter fed plankton. A nice advantage to the Tilapia though is that they will start spawning in two months and add to the forage.

Rad had a picture posted on his thread a few days ago of his Pacu, they do grow amazingly fast. I vote that you try them Bobad and let us hear your results!

In doing some more research on the Pacu, it seems that the biggest complaint from aquarium owners is that the Pacu quickly outgrows their tank and the owner doesn't then know what to do with the Pacu...hmmm, a pond with LMB/HSB would need relatively large Pacu to escape predation...maybe that would solve both problems at once...aquarium owners take their large Pacus back to the fish store where a pond owner could pick them up for stocking. I wonder...and the way they are purported to eat plant matter...hmmm, kind of intriguing. Thinking out of the box.

According to an e-mail I just received from TP&W, it is legal to stock Pacu in private ponds.

I have a call into Dr. Masser at Texas A&M to request any case studies...intriguing.

p.s. looks like a fresh water version of the permit and gets just as large

I fish for Pickerel often and they can fill an interesting space in a pond. Pickerel while shaped like Pike and Musky do not grow anywhere near as large. Fish over four pounds are uncommon. Pickerel prefer fish shaped long and narrow like they are. Adult Prickle could eat a large sunfish would probably prefer small bass because they would be easier to get down. They would be very useful in a pond that is stunted with a bunch of small bass do to lack of harvest. I have no idea how many you would need to stock. They could also be useful in controlling large shiners, and shad in ponds with out LMB big enough to do the job.

Johnboat,

I think chain pickeral would be a good catch and release fish. My experience with them when I lived in Massachusetts was they don't seem to learn very well. I remember catching the same one twice in a short period of time.

I'm kind of interested in seeing the long-term impacts of chain pickerel in a pond. There is a 15 acre state park lake that I fish frequently that supposedly has a few. Several people I've met reported either catching or at least seeing them. My girlfriend has seen what she believes was one of them, but unfortunately I have not yet.

One fellow I met the other day complained about catching "those d@mn northern pike"...I suspect he doesn't know the difference, although I could believe that the lake stays could enough year-round from springwater and aerators that it might support a couple of northerns, still have to witness it to believe it.

I know the lake holds a few surprises. There are a few random longnose gar, which I doubt were illegally transplanted. Most anglers around here that catch 'em accidentally will kill them instead of dropping them elsewhere. I've seen a few random brown trout, no idea how they got there. And there is a healthy population of some of the biggest grass carp I've ever seen. And for what it's worth, milfoil and coontail are so prevalent that they have no shortage of food. And I know they're not gonna eat the filamentous algae that covers most all of the lake surface. I'm thinking tilapia would help that, but I doubt the state would ever bite. Interestingly enough, while other public ponds here are overrun with white crappie, GSF, and bullheads, brought in by "helpers", this lake appears to have none of those. In fact, it doesn't even seem to have any channel cats for whatever reason.

Oh wait, if the water is cool enough to support a few browns and possible northerns, maybe it couldn't support the tilapia for very long. I haven't checked the water temps myself, but this thing is flowing out from a cave, and the water stays pretty darn cool even in the summer.

Allcha and all,

Thanks for the replies! Your info in spotted bass is invaluable. Sounds like a not-so-good pond fish. Too bad. They gave me so many great memories with their spunky fighting on light tackle.

Looks like grass pickerel could be a winner. I think the biggest one I ever caught was a 2 pounder, so they could never compete with LMB for the top predator spot. I know they like clear water, and do not like a silted up bottom, so they would be hard to keep. It would be worth it however, because this is the most "aerobatic" fish I have even caught. I used to get 2-4 jumps from every one I hooked. They would often take the lure from the tops of lilly pads or in the air as it bumped across pads or logs. What a killer little fighter! Good eating too. :p

I've been sitting here talking about chain pickerel and you've been talking about grass pickerel all along. Not sure how much difference that makes. I will say that you're notion that grass pickerel stay pretty small is probably a good thing in terms of top predator status. There's one thing that concerns me. LMB are able to maintain a high position in the food chain due to the fact that they can swallow just about anything. That could be negated, though, if the grass pickerel's eating habits are anything like other Esocidae. Pike, muskie, and to some extent chains, are ambush predators with big teeth, and will often wait for something to come by and then slash first and ask questions later. If the diminuitive grass pickerel has this same tendency to kill anything that happens by, whether it could feasibly eat it or not, that could be bad. I dunno, I don't have any experience with them.

apcenter,

Never caught a chain pickerel. They must be a more norther species. If they fight like a grass pickerel, you've got a winner.

Bobad, they're not exactly a northern species, but a little north of you anyway. The two species (and a subspecies of the grass, called a redfin) overlap in range here, so I have seen both. But both are fairly uncommon, nonetheless. The chain tends a little bigger than the grass. And yes, they're equally as vicious fighters, IMO.