Pond Boss Forums GENERAL QUESTIONS Muddy water Alum Kicks Clay Butt!

I never saw a drop in my ph during the process but I was only using test strips for a pool to check the ph. I was also constantly adding hydrated lime during the process. I am hoping to go up and take a look at the pond this weekend.
During the process I didnt see any fish floating or for that matter doing anything else. Lately the only fish I have seen with the water being so brown are the ones the cormarants have been eating. I have been watching them through my binoculars. I have only seen them eating shad up to half a pound. i have been a bit nervous about a fish kill after reading some of the posts on the forum.

Pool test strip is good for an overview +/- 1pH unit. Just be mindful of that. A pool test kit will give you a higher accuracy of +/- 0.2pH unit. However, it's good to invest in a more sensitive pH meter, which you have to shell out about $400. However, the pH meter will provide an accurate data that aid you in the long run if you're introducing alum, chitosan, or any acidic/alkaline agent into the water. In our work, we don't use the "Dilution is the solution" method. Rather, natural buffering, settling, and filtration is the solution. If you need more info in that area, let me know. I can provide you some insights into the natural approach, rather than chemically induced and counter balance.

Not too concerned over ph/alkalinity drop as you have that covered. Jar test to see how much more alum it may take to clear the water is what I was referring to. The amount should have dropped a good bit if any more is needed. Test strips would have indicated a problem if it existed.

Curious Shorty. Is there a buffer zone to create a filtering strip using native vegetation as a natural bio-swale between the gully and the pond? The gully can be turned into a settling/retention area, before introducing filtered water to the pond. A win-win situation if there is that buffer zone.

It worked great the water has cleared to about three feet from only one inch before with no fish kill. Thanks for all the help people have given me from the forum. I now have a new problem the cormorants have tripled in numbers

Ah..the wonderful aerial predators saw the swimmers below. Hunting season time? Automatic air sounding devices (used quite often by DFG and habitat conservation agencies) are utilized to scare away birds. You may want to check it out? The device can use either propane or any compressed air. You can actually fashion one out yourself.

Those birds can see shad from miles away. New problem - new approach

#8's are a little small, even for Tungsten. If shooting Tungsten, I'd opt for #6's. But, at $2/shot I prefer lead if possible. For flying birds where non-toxic shot is required, we've had good results with Kent Fasteel. 3" shells at 1550 fps, 3 1/2" shells at 1625 fps. 4's, 2's or 1's work well for cormorant sized birds, for geese we jump up to BB's.

That picture of the duck in the pattern is misleading. #8's are much smaller than the birds eye, less than half the mallard's eye in size. A #8 pellet is .080" in diameter.

8's at distance don't kill the water turkeys - no lead no poison . --

I had three large bass on the shore today being eaten by hawks and vultures two weeks after adding alum possible causes? Not enough to call it a fish kill but all fish over five pounds

Possible total suspended solids bounded by the Alum caught in the larger fish's gills, creating poor oxygen absorption since it's still malleable and sticky, which in turn cause the fish to belly up.

no more dead fish today and the fish were feeding very well at the feeders. Caught some really nice bass and hybrids today and feel like the clear water has improved the feeding and catching of the fish. I would highly recommend adding alum to your pond if it is muddy.

Be sure to keep an eye on the forage. With WT having just left and the sight feeders (LMB and HSB) going wild you may need some more CNBG and or shad. Predators should really pack on the weight this year.

I saw no bluegill at the feeder and the cormorants are putting an extra hurt on the shad
I agree i need more forage just an excuse to go fish shopping

I can't see how this theory could hold as the "floc" is only VERY lightly, magnetically held together and is no "stickier" in clumps than it as was free floating particles and the "clumps" are easily broken apart back into the individual particles. If the suspended solids caused no oxygen problems before it flocked, I don't believe it could after since there is no chemistry change.

The most likely cause was something ewest mentioned...forage! The large bass likely gorged themselves and choked to death due to being able to now see more forage than they could handle. I have this happen now and then when I put feeder fish in my aquarium. The latest victim being a 12" SMB that tried to swallow 7 goldfish at once, and failed. The goldfish got stuck and she was unable to move water across her gills.

I appreciate all the information that everyone has contributed here.

I'm about to attempt to clear up my 2 ponds, 1/2 acre each and separated by a narrow dirt road (now mostly grass). See pictures.

Last summer the ponds were fairly clear until late summer & early fall when they became filled with algae, to the point where blobs were floating around and visibility was maybe a couple inches. The algae disappeared over the winter (and I've added 6 grass carp to each pond about a month ago). But while the algae may have disappeared, the ponds have become muddy. We have had a fair bit of rain this year and the ponds fill with runoff from the nearby hills. Vegetation covers all the hills. I've done some digging with a backhoe around the ponds last fall removing some willow trees and building a small boat slip. I also put aerators in each pond, driven by a windmill. It seems that once I did all that work around the ponds is when it became muddy, but it's staying that way.

I drew out a gallon of pond water and let it sit for 2 days. It remains muddy with no accumulation of sediment. So I'm thinking that alum is the answer, but I would appreciate some help with that. I hope to spread the stuff from the shore line, spraying the slurry out into the ponds with a pump, a garden hose and a nozzle. I should be able to reach about 20 feet into the ponds from the banks. Is that sufficient? Also, if you'll look at the pictures, could someone venture a guess at how many acre-feet, or whatever, that I have?

And finally ... I read that one could buy alum at the grocery store so I got some. $4.54 per OUNCE!!??? And, I tried mixing 1 teaspoon in about 1/4 cup of water before I added that to my 1 gallon pond sample, but it's nothing like a slurry at all. It's clear. The alum looks like salt to me, and I thought it was a fine powder. What am I doing wrong here?

Appreciate all the help I can get.

(I hope the pictures appear in the order in which I've listed them here.)
1. Last summer's clear water.
2. Last summer's clear water #2.
3. Murky water now.
4. Jug of murky water.
5. Did digging the boat slip do it? (And digging up 30 willow trees.)
6. Pond depth measurements.

Wingsy, just a hunch but your muddy water may be from a combination of recent rains, the grass carp you stocked, your new aeration systems, and the digging you did along the pond.

Looking at your jug picture your water clarity is not really that bad, you can still see the label on the other side of the jug. My guess is that if you give it time it will clear up all on it's own by fall. One of my friends got some BIG rain last year that washed out his small pond and muddied it up very badly, he had a river 30 yards wide going over his dam. He asked me a lot of questions about alum and how to treat it afterwards. He never did treat his pond but after 5 months it did clear up on it's own.

Alum is used primarily by water treatment plants and can be purchased in 50 lb. bags very reasonably, finding a place to buy it is the chore. When I did my pond I talked with a chemical specialist at one of our local Ag Co-ops and they were able to order it in for me but the first few people I talked with didn't have a clue what I was looking for.

Thanks Shorty. Yes, I do believe that I'm responsible for making the water murky, but my concern is that it's staying murky. Once I caused all that clay and dirt to get into the water won't it just stay in suspension until I do something, like adding alum? The test jug sat for 2 days and not one bit settled out. I added 1 teaspoon of alum to the jug yesterday, and now look at it. I could (almost) drink it!

And I'm not having any luck at all in finding powdered alum. Still looking.

Look at that 2nd picture where the suspended solids are raining down from inside the jug. Looks spooky.

Here is a 2008 thread on sourcing aluminum sulfate.

http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=139641

Reviving this thread, because to me it's the most complete Alum thread.

Before doing the Alum deal on Highfyler's brood pond, we tested the Alum on a small 1/5 acre cow tank I had. It was used first for 2 reasons:
1) To get the procedure right.
2) Nothing in it to kill, so no consequences if done incorrectly.

After a week, the water had cleared, and a tremendous algae bloom had started. There were small floating patches of FA, but generally the tank responded as expected. The FA has since stopped.

What's interesting to me, was the continued usage by 30 cows and the consequences of re-stiring the mud on the bank. Although the banks were extremely muddy, they continue to resettle after a few days.

Now, a month later, the water continues to stay clear after muddying, and GSF are clearly visible and active.

My CNBG brood pond was to be treated with Alum also, but the need for Alum was negated by adding lot's of new water. It has cleared nicely on it's own, so no Alum will be used.

So my question is, is this normal for Alum to re-clear water if stirred up? I've never heard this addressed.

My dog muddys up my pond every night frog hunting and it clears up on it's own. I also had few gully washers back in May that brought the water clarity down to 3" and it cleared up on it's own. I think getting a bloom going helps clear the water in a positive feedback loop.

I treated a pond 10 days ago with Phosclear. Application was 0.25#/1,000 gallons of water. Before applying, visibility was 10" due to clay turbidity. After application, 2 days later I swung by the pond to check because the owner said it was a little bit clearer. Visibility was 36". It was impossible to find alum here without ordering it by the ton, so I went with what I could get. I spread it out dry, tossing the granules out over the pond with the wind (per directions). pH was 8.6 to start, 7.9 upon completion, and 2 days later it was 8.1.

More expensive than alum for sure, but it did the trick!

Wow! I'm sure glad this thread got resurrected.

The third-acre pond I built last year has never cleared. I have about 6 inches of visibility due to suspended clay.

Part of the problem may be the constant "weeping" along the steep backside that was cut into the hillside. It stays wet almost year around and is shaded much of the day. I'm having a real hard time getting any vegetation established. Crown vetch is very slowly getting a foothold. I don't know if it is the major source of clay, or a very minor source.

Significant mud, like a real dense dust cloud, gets stirred up if a fish grabs a pellet in a shallow area. Visibility goes to zero in the cloud.

I was hoping it would clear on its own. It feeds several settlement ponds on its way to my main pond. The lower ponds have almost no suspended clay, except after a heavy rain when the muddy pond has lots of outflow.

Is it worth putting in alum or Phosclear if the clay is coming from the weeping side. The main source of runoff water is very clear where it enters the pond.

Ken that's exactly what I thought. To good a thread to die. I had bookmarked it, and referred to it repeatedly before I considered Alum. Rex and all the other posters did good.

Although I chose not to Alum the primary pond I had originally considered, I have another one that could really benefit from it down the road. It's a cow tank also, just a lot bigger. It stays muddy, and if the Alum does to it what it did to this tank, then that's a home run.