Pond Boss Forums GENERAL QUESTIONS Pond Boss My new toy

My dad found this on Craiglist. We are going to pick it up on Friday. I think I will dig a hole to China.

http://dallas.craigslist.org/bfs/683434963.html

Well you can always pay off your tuition by digging ponds.

Boy, I don't know squat about equipment values, but that looks like a good deal for $13-14K. Good for you, Chris.

This might be a buyer's market for anything that uses fuel now?

Brettski, my dad looked at other ones and he said that all of them were about 18+K from individuals and 12-13K wholesale.

Chris,
What does a new one cost? Reason I ask is you might consider the new tax rule to businesses for farm equipment if bought new in '08.

Chris,

With only 2900 hours on the machine, it should serve you well for many years. Those are pretty low hours for a 1983. The price is also very good for a machine with that few hours. It does look like it was repainted, but the tires appear to be in good shape. Most hydraulic leaks are not a major problem, but it should be attended to.

Good diggin'
Ken

Chris:

Are you sure you don't want to be adopted up North?

Theo,

I think I will pass. I am not interested in the cold weather.


I think that we will put this thing to good use. We have really bad erosion problems from when the property was clearcut back in 2004. The major ditches are all full of soil. We will be able to clear them back.

Another project will be to put a pipe under the road uphill of the my pond that I am building. That will add a few more acres of watershed and help reduce some erosion in the normal path of the water.

Young Man wrote: "I think I will pass. I am not interested in the cold weather."

Young Man, I've taught you to be far more of an opportunist than that. Please explore this deal further and see where we can turn a tidy profit.

Pondsea, what is the new 08 tax rule? I may dump my tractor for a new one

Sgt911, I am not an accountant nor an accountant's son, but I can give you what little i know from the IRs publication for tax law changes for 2008, as well as some other websites you can look up yourself. I was turned on to it first by my local tractor dealer. I checked into it myself and the point is that it may help explain why some prices on used equipment may be dropping a little more than usual.

Basically, you know that a business can either "depreciate" equipment over a number of years, or sometimes just take a deduction in one year for the entire value of the equipment against their income. That would be called "expensing." There was a limit though. The new Economic Stimulus Act for 2008 basically doubles that limit to 250,000, allowing you to "expense" the entire amount up that level for 2008. Plus if you go over the limit, you also have a chance at a 50% "depreciation" for 2008. Sort of a double whammy for those evil rich guys who really like to play with toys.

I probably muddied it all up, but here is an example: If you bought a new tractor for your business for $25,000, assuming a 35% tax bracket, the effective cost of the new tractor is $16,250. So you can see why a used tractor price would have to adjust this year to reflect that difference. In other words, why would I buy your used one for 15K if I could buy a new one for 16K?

Now an interesting thing to me is that some accountants claim that this change does NOT only apply to new equipment, but also can be taken against used equipment if it is bought in 2008. I would want to double check that.

Anyway, you have to buy the equipment in 08 for it to qualify. Surely there is a CPA among us who can explain this a lot better than I did.

Disclaimer: pondsea is not giving financial, legal, tax, accounting or any other kind of advice that, in any event of being proven incorrect, confusing, or downright wrong, could bring adverse action of any kind, including berating, belittling, suing, or threats of any nature. He reserves the right to change his mind upon being proven wrong and claim that the new position was his actual position all along, making him incapable of taking any other position than the correct one anyway. All persons reading this are encouraged to seek the counsel of a professional on these matters, so that, at least someone can make money giving you the same help.

Pondsea, Thanks for your informative response..I'll have to look into this further.

I think the title for Master of Disclaimers (currently held by JHAP) might just have been challenged by pondsea.

JHAP still has the lead IMHO on the basis of his using small print.

Disclaimer: Theo's opinion is not intended to get anyone upset, especially pondsea or the GSF.

I am a CPA and I shall attempt to clarify this somewhat, but don't call me Shirly.

The election to expense property in one year is called a section 179 election. As you pointed out Pondsea, effective January 1, 2008 as business can elect to expense up to $250,000 in qualifying fixed asset purchases in one year provided that other criteria is met (the equipment must be used in a trade or business, the 179 deduction cannot be used to create or increase a net loss, there is a limitation on the total investment in one year, the equipment can't be purchased on ground hog day) [ok I made that part up]. In order to qualify for the section 179 election the equipment DOES NOT have to be new.



You got half of the answer. Assuming that all the qualifications are met and that you can use the Section 179 deduction on either new or used equipment. So, using your suggested tax bracket, the $15,000 used equipment would have an effective cost of $9,750.

Additionally I wouldn't suggest using a 35% tax bracket since for 2008 this bracket doesn't begin until you reach taxable income of $357,701. Most people will fall into either the 25% or 28% bracket.

Part of the new tax law under the Economic Stimulus Act of 2008 is the return of an old friend "Bonus Depreciation." [do I need more friends or what?] Under this method 50% of an asset can be expensed in the first year. To qualify for this method the equipment MUST be "original use property" (new). Once again there are qualifications that must be met and limitations and other annoyances.

Did this help or make things worse?

Oh and as an also and besides for those of you that have farm schedules (raising fish for sale is considered to raising livestock which is reflected on a farm schedule) the recently enacted "Heartland, Habitat, Harvest, and Horticulture Act of 2008" has some new deductions for soil conservation expenditures, water conservation expenditures and endangered species recovery expenditures. This is for expenses incurred after December 31, 2008 (next year). Assuming the expenditures otherwise qualify it may be possible to deduct expenses related to "leveling, grading, terracing, contour furrowing, drainage ditches, earthen dams, watercourses, outlets, ponds, eradication of brush and the planting of windbreaks." If you have a farm schedule and are planning some of these expenses check with your CPA (or tractor salesman) about being able to deduct some of these expenses. Through advanced planning you might be able to ensure that you meet the required criteria.

And now, what you've all been waiting for, my disclaimer:

The information provided above is for informational and entertainment purposes only and should not be considered as, nor relied upon as tax advice. Check with your tax preparer or tractor salesman to see if you meet the criteria for any deduction discussed above. JHAP is NOT an expert in tax law as it relates to farm schedules so don't ask him any questions about either tax law as it relates to a farm or farm law as it relates to taxes. JHAP grew up in the city and therefore doesn't know squat about farms, he did regularly watch Green Acres as a child so he could probably differentiate between a goat and a sheep but don't rely on it. Tax code is available freely over the internet however prolonged exposure to tax code can cause nausea, projectile vomiting and overall discomfort, displeasure, disassociation, disbelief, discontent, disharmony, disheveling, disgust, disloyalty, disobediance, disquietude and many other words that start with dis. Four out of five doctors recommend avoiding any prolonged exposure to Internal Revenue Code while three of seven dentists actually enjoy reading tax code. This makes sense when you think about it because most folks don't like visits with either their tax preparer or their dentist. JHAP is a CPA that is licensed to practice in the State of California even though he resides in a perpetual State of Denial. JHAP will continue to practice until he gets better at it. The opinions expressed by JHAP are not necessarily those of Pond Boss's management, moderators, advertisers, members at large, members at small, or even medium sized members.

The Winner, and still Champion,

jeffhasapond!

JHAP - you are ONE BIG MESS - can't wait to meetcha at the PB conference...
Or should I compose a disclaimer...

I resemble that remark.




Right back at ya George.



No need, I keep spare disclaimers for just such an occasion.

JHAP that was my original position. Thanks for making it clear to me. I bow to your disclaimer, sheath my pen (or keyboard), and humbly disclose defeat to the disturbed victor, oh lord of the disclaimerers; myself dissed, dispirited, and suddenly disinterested.

ya gotta like the Underdog.

No problemo. You had the basics ya just needed some fine tuning.




Never surrender. I quite enjoyed your disclaimer. Keep 'em coming.

I got to run the backhoe this weekend. It is a heck of a machine. The digging bucket will hold close to a half yard of dirt when it is mounded up. The front bucket is 1.8 yards. So you can move a lot of dirt quick. It is so back heavy that if you get a full bucket when the boom is all the way out it will lift the front end off of the ground. That is not a big deal though because you can fill the front bucket up with dirt.

The first hole we dug was to put some brush in. It was about 10 feet wide x 12 feet deep x 15 feet long. The soil was 1 foot of topsoil, 2 feet of a sandy clay and the rest was all clay. The clay changed from brown to gray to brick red. I also dug a small silt pond just above one of the areas where we have some bad erosion.

We did have some mechanical issues though. Saturday we had a hydralic line bust that turns the arm left and right. We got that fixed but had another leak up front near the radiator.

Talking about toys, some ladies down the road had a sex toy showing the other evening. I was not invited. I guess toys are toys ? Maybe this could be explained better by those more4 in the know?