Pond Boss Forums MANAGING AN EXISTING POND Evaluating and adjusting fish populations Hammerhandles...

Greetings all,

After cruising the site from the background, I figured it is time to jump in. My name is Steve and I live in Ottawa, Ontario.

I am looking at buying a piece of property on a 25 acre lake. It is the only property on the lake. If I can swing a deal, it looks like a great opportunity.

The current owner has never fished the lake, but his father used to and would catch only pike. After an hour with the rod this morning, it looks like it may filled with hammerhandles.

I didn't have the opportunity to survey the lake from a canoe and take depth measurements, but the shorelines is a mix of rock and sand. The far end of the lake weedy and according to the current owner it has a max depth of 20-25 feet deep.

It would be a great brook trout lake (my ideal preference), but given that its quite close to a river, there is a good chance the Quebec Ministry of Natural Resources will not be willing to issue a permit to use rotenone. Consequently, if I am able to buy it I would have to adjust the existing population and, ideally, migrate to a walleye/NP/SMB lake.

I have been reviewing the site the past week or two and noticed a couple of ominous references to 'hammerhandle problems' being very difficult to fix. I assume its not a situation where I could dump in walleye fingerlings (4"-8") in the fall and expect success.

Steve

Welcome Steve.

If the lake does not have water constantly flowing through it there shouldn't be any environmental problems with the river.

Rotenone dissipates over a few days until it is no longer lethal. The hotter the water temperature, the quicker it dissipates.

The cost to rotenone a 25 acre lake will be high.

The small eyes will mostly be eaten. How about some more info on the lake - open water , shape ect. Reducing the NP numbers will help. Other options may work.

Ewest and Chris - thank you for responding so quickly. I really appreciate the help.

I also have really enjoyed reading this site, its kinda like finding a home. I work to fish and hunt and the idea of actively managing a pond or small lake, well, it just leaves me with this latent excitement.

I will be heading back up tomorrow, partly to canoe around the lake and, well, partly to do some trout fishing. I will take pictures.

The lake is kidney shaped and is approximately 0.3 miles long and 0.15 miles wide (estimated using Google Maps), which actually appears to translate into a 20 acre size, anyways. There are no islands. There is not direct link between the river and the lake.

I expect with a lake of this size, we are talking substantial numbers needs to be removed to have an impact.

Ewest - when you say the cost would be high, is their a typical cost coefficient for a rotenone treatment that could be used?

thanks again...
Steve

It depends on the type of fish , temp and amount of water. I recently rotenoned a 5 acre drawn down pond (avg depth 3 feet) and used 8 gallons of rotenone at a cost of $1500. We had the potential for some low DO tolerant fish (bowfin , gar and cats) so we used a high ppm application.

I can find the #s if you need them.

ewest, sure would like to see what was nuked, any photos?

http://www.pondboss.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=10675&Number=116388#Post116388




Previously shocked out.




Lots of skinny crappie , GSF , Warmouth , and Lepomis Xs , bullheads . Many sank and were never seen.

Wow, that side of the business sure has ups and downs doesn't it. I realize there are times it needs to be done, but some of those LMB look like they have been eating plenty. (or the sun has already puffed them up a little)

It must be heartbreaking to see a LMB come up when it's over 5 lbs.

HuckFinn -- if you can't rotenone and start over, then I honestly believe that you could do a lot of good by harvesting the small pike. Let me make a very general guess that you could have about 10 pounds/acre pike (that varies according to productivity and habitat, so it's just a wild guess). While 25 acres sounds like big water, you may only have 250 pounds of northern pike out there. The hammerhandles typically bite well, especially in spring. So, taking out 100, 2-pound pike would really have an effect on the population. After such a harvest, you'd have a higher percentage of the 4-8 inch walleyes survive a stocking. The pike will respond with increased reproduction, so you'd have to keep fishing and keep up the harvest each year. I know, I know -- what an imposition.

I can give you some very rough numbers on a rotenone operation. You have 25 acres, but I don't know maximum depth. Say that you are 16 feet deep, then a rough average depth would be 8 feet. 25 acres and 8 ft = 200 acre-feet of water. If you use liquid rotenone, you should use 1 gallon per acre-foot of water, 200 gallons total. I don't know what your costs would be for rotenone, but let's just guess at $70-80 US. Can you afford $16K worth of rotenone to create a world-class brook trout fishery (assuming the province would let you)?

But they sure taste good.

I don't eat rotenoned fish - some people do.

Eastland the bass were only the big ones I picked up. There were a bunch of small skinny ones. The reason they look good is for 2 + years the lake (8 acres normal pre fix) was kept low ( 2- 4 acres) and all the forage was crammed into the small area (drawdown effect).

OK, I'll bite. What's a hammerhandle?

FLINCH!

I had to google it myslef, DD. A (Canadian) term for a small Pike, mebbe 1-2 lbs. I guess because they're the size and shape of a hammer handle.

Thanks for aking the question Dave - I didn't have a clue but thought for a minute that us Southern guys were going to be allowed to go back to our southern nomenclature of "white perch" and "sand bass" ..

Hey, you southern guys have so darn many names that us northern folk deserve a few, don't we??

You Yankees better get your act straight or we might have to start calling you Bubba.

If rotenone isn't an option, why can't you use a couple of gill nets?

Hi fishtech. Haven't heard from you in a while! Thanks for the good idea. Would he run into any provincial or federal regulations on the use of the gill nets?

Thats something he is going to have to find out. We've used them before to put a dent in some carp populations. If he is looking to clean the lake out or make a substantial impact, what better way than to use a couple gill nets?

Dave
It nice to know someone notices when you don't post for a while. I check in everday, mostly to observe. How are things in S.D.?

Cool and wet, FishTech!! The yellow perch spawn was about 3 weeks late, and we're just now picking up some larvae. It's always something with Mother Nature, eh?

I like Fishtech's idea of using the gill nets. I would assume that since pike are a predatory fish that they would move around in the lake quite a bit and would be more likely to get caught in a few gill nets. You would be able to make a pretty major dent in the fish population of the lake and wouldn't have to spend $16,000 on chemicals. You could spend that money on stocking.

We use gill nets and then drive the fish into the nets with boats making noise with paddles and chains.