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I like this thread too, it's funny and makes you think. If fish transportation by birds is somewhat "suspect", does the same hold true for birds transporting plant life as well? I would bet the common types of pond weeds mysteriously appear on a more predictable basis.

I'm especially interested in the viewpoints from those who think the bird/fish combination isn't likely to occur.

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I have no doubt that Duckweed and Watermeal get transferred by birds. Plants are much more tolerant of being out of the water, and most don't need a partner to reproduce.



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This debate (mystery) can be easly solved. This will probably be a good project(experiment) for GW.
Dig a new pond. Not to big. 1/4 ac should be good. Sides should be higher elevation than surroundigs to keep fish from swimming in from other water sources. Fill pond using only filtered well water. Set 24 hour survalence with inferred, heatseeking, thermal imiageing, nigt vision, motion sensetive cameras and record what happens.
Just an idea.

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Calvin, it's funny you should say that, I started digging this exact pond yesterday. ;\)



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It's also important to only use a single shovel to dig this new pond. Using any machinery could facilitate egg delivery via axl grease.


Excerpt from Robert Crais' "The Monkey's Raincoat:"
"She took another microscopic bite of her sandwich, then pushed it away. Maybe she absorbed nutrients from her surroundings."

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 Originally Posted By: Sunil
It's also important to only use a single shovel to dig this new pond. Using any machinery could facilitate egg delivery via axl grease.

Don't forget Duckweed transferal via hydraulic fluid leaks! \:D


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Sometimes lifes miracles just happen. Ever wonder how zooplankton shows up? Turtles, water snakes, frogs? Even in a pond where no other water is near.


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Ok, I'm still thinking here. I like the idea of the experimental pond (might be a long time before we find out???? Maybe that fishless pond could show up with some fish--one year? two years?
The dead catfish on the side of the road is gone (sure something took it away for lunch). What if some animal bird or whatever)took a fish from one pond/creek to somewhere else.

Burgermesiter, I'm with you, sometimes it just happens! I think fish would show up in it, how, I don't know--I haven't figured that one out yet. \:\)




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If the answer is "it takes 150 years" for the remote possibilities to place life into a void pond...does that really make any of us feel better \:\)

Heck, what were the odds of an unknown .270 shell casing falling from the sky, and landing right thru my deer stand window, 1 foot away from my chair? I will never place a camera on a void pond to see if life arrives, but I have placed game cameras to watch for .270 casings. \:D

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MarkECIN, we did discuss birds moving adult fish to other ponds. Here's my view:

 Originally Posted By: GW
I don't doubt that mature fish are dropped by birds occasionally, but mystery fish show up in ponds far too often for that to be the main explanation.

1. What are the odds that a dropped fish will land in a pond?

(Statistically it is far far more likely to hit dry land, but let's say it hits a pond.)

2. What are the odds of the fish surviving capture, transportation without oxygen and the long drop into the pond?

(Let's say a fish did land in a pond and survive the ordeal.)

3. What are the odds that another fish of the same species will also land in that very same pond and survive?

(Okay, assume that this event happened twice in the same pond.)

4. What are the odds that the second lucky fish is the opposite sex of the first lucky surviver?

(Easy, the odds are 2 to 1, so double the odds against the fish successfully establishing.)

With each of those four steps the odds get higher and higher that the dropped fish won't survive and establish themselves. I believe the "dropped fish theory" can't account for even a tiny fraction of the mystery fish that appear in ponds. I'm more inclined to believe that birds are seeding ponds intentionally.




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Funny thing this thread, because I was just down to my new pond today and saw two fish that I did not stock. As a matter of fact, I have not stocked ANY gamefish, only just deposited 500 FH and 250K GSH fry into the brand new pond 3 weeks ago. Today as I walked the banks and stood stunned over the gazillion minnows at every turn, I saw two strange looking fish chasing one another. Both about 3-4 inches with some sort of brown and light striping. No clue what they were, but I sure did not put them there. Now, one thing that may be common to new ponds like mine that may help explain is this: Before the pond filled up with water, there was a small brook feeding it that slowly got full of water for a couple weeks prior to closing off its exit. That fed into an old tiny hole of water, which also emptied downstream into an old farm pond. Now those fish could have entered from either end. They could have somehow been in the upper end of the small brook, or in the tiny little "pond" downstream, or even remotely possible to have come upstream from the old farm pond about 300 yards down stream. The problem with theory number one? The little brook always dried up during late summer. No way for fish to survive on the dry ground, unless somehow buried in the mud like I have heard of some species doing. Theory number two, in the tiny catch pond? Problem, we drained out the tiny little pond when we keyed in the dam, since it was in the way. Theory number three, swimming upstream from the farm pond? The fish would have had do a salmon like leap of 25 feet from the stream bed below the dam over the dam and into the new pond. Or they could have lept only 4 feet up into the spillway drain pipe and then shimmied up the 20 feet of pipe at the pond end, exiting into the new pond as well. So far, my guess is the little brook that held a few feet of water in it for a few weeks while the dam was finished, somehow had some of these little fish that had managed to swim upstream from the tiny pond and either were buried in mud or somehow survived long enough. Either that or some bird dropped them into the pond.


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The first thing I thought about this morning this topic.

THIS IS THE MOST FUN I EVER HAD.

otto

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i'd say eastland and gw are unsuspecting combined geniuses w/ a little burger thrown in.

vector x problem solved = birds + plant material + fish eggs......fish eggs stick on plants, plants stick on birds, plants stay wet, eggs survive trip......"and now you know the rest of the story"


GSF are people too!

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That's an interesting equation there Dave, and it relates to something I've been wondering about; How deep will most fish eggs be and how deep do most wading birds wade? I would think that instinct would direct the fish to avoid stomping bird legs. On the other hand maybe some fish have evolved to take advantage of bird's pond hopping to expand their territory.

Hmm.



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GW, the last 2 years I have been watching sunfish nest in water nominally considered "too shallow", then some of them disappear with GBH tracks left behind. I have concluded that the normal minimum spawning bed depths of 2'-3' are designed to avoid most wading bird predation.


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Last year I stocked my pond with Redear sunfish, Coppernose Bluegill and F1 bass.

This year, I have green sunfish. Some of you will get a chuckle, as I hate them worse than any fish except maybe mudcat/bullheads.

They were purchased from American Sport Fishing, the place Ray Scott buys his fish. It is not likely that they messed up. They are professionals.

There is a creek with all kinds of fish within .5 mile of my pond. Also there are a few scattered ponds down stream. The pond never has reached spillway, so they did not swim over it.

Either American Sport Fisheries screwed up, which isn't likely, or birds brought them in. Nobody would stock them on me. It's very private. I get a few horseback riders who come near, but have never seen anyone remotely interesting in fishing in my hidden in a hollow pond.

Birds or American sport fisheries brought the fish to my pond. My bet is on birds.

Last edited by Robinson; 05/28/08 08:19 AM.

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Where have you been, Robinson?


Excerpt from Robert Crais' "The Monkey's Raincoat:"
"She took another microscopic bite of her sandwich, then pushed it away. Maybe she absorbed nutrients from her surroundings."

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I still lurk here, just don't post much anymore. Maybe that will change. I just haven't been as excited. I'm glad others are having great success and read about them frequently.

I posted, as it was ironic that the green sunfish hater, me, now has a pond full of them, maybe by divine intervention. The only thing that makes sense is birds. Nobody fishes the pond. The fish are unable to swim over the spillway, as it has never reached it, and I purchased my fish from American sport fishers, who are one of the most reputable fisheries in the nation. When I got the bass, there were no green sunfish. I don't know if I could tell the difference with the baby brim though. Even so, the green sunfish weren't likely in the mix.

Birds brought the green sunfish in from the creek a half mile down. Theoretically the green sunfish could have swam to the base of my dam, though not likely, and the birds grabbed them there and put them in.

Oh well. Thanks for asking Sunil.

Last edited by Robinson; 05/28/08 12:27 PM.

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Hey Robinson...
Can we safely assume that you finally beat the "leaking pond syndrome" that plagued you for so long? What was the cure?

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It holds great, at one acre. Problem is, it should be 5 acres. I have narrowed it down to one area. I'm going to put hogs in and feed them over it. It's the one area we did not compact.


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Robinson

IF this discussion about how fish got into your pond does not get your blood running, nothing will, it has been great.

OTTO

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I can feel some Giants in the making. Ouch! Sorry, man, couldnt resist. At leasts you have a solid acre and some fish. Congrats. A larger one could be jusst more of a headache.
I was up in yur neck o' the woods just last week. I thought about you when we passed 'Robinson Pond' in Franklin.


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Robinson I for one am pulling for you to get the pond fixed and full of large BG and LMB. When you get there please post a pic.
















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Hey, P.I., good to see you back.


It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.

Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP
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Burger, that is funny. Yes, you can see the lake right off the interstate, especially now that the interstate is being widened. I wish I had it. It's only problem is that the river floods and wild fish get into it from time to time. In the case of my studies and experience, if I ever build another pond, it will be very similar to that one. The one's I see that work best in my karst region, are nearest the water table/flood zones.

Thanks for the kind words everyone. I still lurk. For a little bit I would sell my place and move on to something that is already built. Ya'll are the best. I just have lost some interest. I still lurk here, and read every other day or so.

Last edited by Robinson; 05/29/08 07:58 AM.

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