Pond Boss Forums AERATION Systems questions Wind Mill Aeration

Hello,
New to the site and hope some of you can help. I have a 3+ acre 20' deep pond in central Idaho. The pond is in decent condition, but I do experience some of the typical algea and weed problems. The pond has been stocked with Rainbow trout which have done well - we now have many fish over 5lbs. Occiasionally I do have a number of fish die off especially during winter months. The pond will freeze over from about December to mid April. Anyway, I am interested in Wind Mill Aeration. I am considering the "Superior Turbo Jet Stream" system. http://www.windmillaeration.com/windmill_faq.html

Has anyone had experience with this system? I would need to purchase two systems which would cost close to $5,000 so I would like to know I am not wasting my
money. Part of the system includes a water pump which will be used to pump some fresh water from a river that wraps around two sides of the pond.

Here are photos of the pond - Thanks for any help!

Welcome to the forum, Idaho Pond. Greetings and felicitations!

Is it safe to assume that there is no electricity available at the pond site, and that bringing it in would be prohibitively expensive?

Personally, I have a Koenders' windmill which has seen my pond through 5 Winters now. I imagine someone 'round here has the system you are contemplating and can pass on some specific info on it. Until then, try reading the Aeration Simplified Archive thread - especially the link to Windmill vs. Electric Aeration about half way down the page.

I would be scared by 5 pound trout if I hadn't been exposed to Cecil Baird already.

You are correct in your assumption - I do not have power at the pond, but it is near by. Power company has estimated about $5,000 to bring in power. Maybe it would be more benefical to bring in power and purchase an electric air pump to aerate?

Have you been happy with your windmills? Has this made a noticeable difference to your pond?

Hi, We also have the Koender's Windmill like Theo at our Pond which is about an acrea (going on 3rd year). There are a lot of these in the area here. Works great, aerates the pond, no fish kill and it does keep an opening in the pond during winter... would definitely recommend 20' height, too. My hubby and I put this one together in a weekend. Regardless what windmill(s) you decide on, it will make a difference and they are neat to watch (we see ours when we do our porch sitting and he can see the whole pond and windmill from his office).

IP:

We installed our windmill when the pond was 2 years old, before it had accumulated many organic sediments or a full load of fish. It has certainly kept a patch of water open almost all Winter (occasional 2-3 day freeze-overs, at most, don't really threaten to deplete O2 in the pond), preventing any Winter fish kills, and I have been happy with it. I am sure it has been beneficial in the Summertime, too, although I have no hard proof - just a healthy pond without any fish kills. As Mark notes, aesthetically they are really neat.

That said, electrical aeration is more dependable, more flexible, and (I believe) in your case, much less expensive to set up than 2 windmills would be. On the down side, you have that $5k electric service cost, and there will of course be monthly expenses to pay for running an aerator compressor.

IMHO, if you have any other uses for electric at the pond besides aeration, you should take a long, hard look at installing electric and having a properly-sized bottom diffuser aeration system installed (or DIY). You should certainly study the pros and cons of both sides of the aeration question, electric vs. windmill, to decide if you want to spent (to me) a lot of money now and have only aeration, or spend a little (relatively, I can't spec an electric aeration system for your pond or quote you a price, but the total should be a fraction of the electric service cost, IIRC) more money and have better aeration PLUS electricity available.

FWIW, I will be purchasing an electric aeration system to aerate both my older, windmilled pond and my new 2nd pond soon after I get electric run to my first pond (keep your fingers crossed that I make it this Summer - that's my target date for the electric) and an air line buried from there to the second pond (will go in the same time as the electric). I will maintain my windmill to assist the air compressor at the older pond, and hopefully be able to run it fewer hours when the wind is blowing, but I WILL have the benefits and flexibility of electric aeration too.

idaho pond, just wanted to say welcome to pondboss, and state "what a beautiful place you have!!" great pics, really nice bow there.

FWIW, i have really become a fan of bottom diffused aeration for my situation. running it at nights only during the summer costs me ~$15-20/month, the system i have cost ~$2k.

no matter what system you choose, you'l need to be a might careful of aerating during the day in the summer if you get high daytime temps.....those beautiful trout wouldnt want the water to get above 65 degrees, and would probably start dying on you if water got to over 70 degrees.

Thanks! That "bow" photo is a couple years old we have some much bigger now but as I mentioned our winters are hard on them and I lose several (around 50) each year. I am not going to put any more in this year. We also have 4 big (4 foot) Sturgeon but I very rarely see them. From the research I have done, it sounds like aeration will cut down on the winter fish kill. I need to decide between spending the money to run power and an electric system of a windmill system. I may end up just getting one windmill system which would be under $3,000 for a 24' tower with a 70" fan. Hard to decide.

I have read that one needs to be careful aerating during hot summer days. I will need to watch that. It is uncommon that we get many days over 85-90 but maybe that would be enough to over heat - the pond does hold a lot of water so I would think it would take a considerable amount of heat to get the overal water temp to 70 degrees but I guess it would be possible?

wow, sturgeon too? that could be a first on pondboss.
sounds like you could have a blast w/ one of those underwater cameras (aqua view).

i think the snow accumulation on the ice is the biggest contributer to winter fish kills, someone else please chime in on that if i am off base.

not that aeration wouldnt help alot, you might just need to go out and (safely) remove as much snow as possible to let the light through the ice, which will help maintain phytoplankton photsynthesis and oxygen levels.

the aeration experts could take yer pond dimensions and determine what size system would turn the pond over in what amount of time. as a WAG, one wind mill powered aerator in a 3 acre 20 foot deep pond might not ever turn the water over completely unless it stayed windy 24/7.

cool stuff, hope you get some more input.

Welcome to PB. One other advantage to electric is you can control when it runs and avoid what DIED described. With a timer you can set the time and duration and change it from winter to summer to do the job. Good luck and let us know how things work. Be sure to see the posts on super cooling during winter aeration.

Thanks for the comments - please keep them coming! The pond is a lot of fun for my family. It is on 70 acres - and we camp, hunt fish often. We live about 18 miles away and vistit the pond several times a week. The Little Salmon River runs through the property (see photo above) so there is a lot of river fly fishing available besides the pond.

Snow is a big problem with our pond. We get several feet on the ground an atleast a couple feet on the ice for most of the winter. It is difficult to get to the pond during the winter because I do not maintain the road - this is one reason I am thinking about a windmill since the one I am looking at is able to run during the winter.

Here are a couple bad photos of the Sturgeon - they are hard to get photos of. Some day I hope to hook into one.

They will probably out live you. You can sell the roe for a bunch.

Idaho, beautiful setting. I sent you a PM

Welcome Idaho. I'm not sure where the existing power is but if it is within a half mile (the way the crow flies) you could run 1.5" - 2.0" PVC air line from the power source to the lakes edge, with minimal friction loss. Take a look at this link http://www.aquatext.com/tables/frict-air.htm for a table showing friction loss based on length and pipe diameter. Next you would find the specifications of whatever diffuser you want to use and make sure that you are still achieving your specifications. Obviously, PVC is cheaper than copper wire.

Thanks for the input. The power is currently about 500 feet from the pond however, it is on the other side of a creek and some marshy areas. So it would be difficult at best to run an air line through this area. It would have to be suspended on stilts just to get over the creek which is really flowing this time of year.

I have about $2,500 I am willing to spend right now, so here is my plan (feel free to critique):

1) Purchase a 24' wind mill with a 70" fan. It is supposed to pump 3cfm in a 9 mph wind. We average around that or more most months. The dealer sells the Koender mills for about the same price but suggests the "Superior Turbo Jet Stream" system I mentioned above. The cost for that will be about $2,200.
2) I will try this wind mill out for a year and see what kind of difference it makes. If need be I would consider getting another mill next year or perhaps biting the bullet and bringing in power to the pond. I don't think I would regret getting the first mill regardless simply because it is a free (once purchased) full time aeration system. Later on once I had power I would still have the wind mill and would suppliment it with an electric pump if need be. The wind mill would run full time (when there is wind ofcourse) and I would have the electric pump on a timer so it could run only when I wanted it to (like at night during the summer for example) and could let it run full time when extra aeration was needed.

Thoughts?

Idaho/ Look at a Beckermill also while exploring your options.

Ted,

Okay - thanks! I spoke to the Gentlemen with Beckermill and sent him information on my pond. Of course he says his is the best like they all do. I guess his is a single diaphragm but can pump as much or more than the superior brand double diaphragm. FYI for those interested, the Superior brand and the Koenders brand are owned by the same group. They compete against each other but are very similar I have been told.

Here are the three websites for anyone interested:
http://www.koenderswindmills.com/
http://www.truewest.ca/wind/Beckermills.htm
http://www.superiorwindmill.com/aeration_systems.html

Anyone have any experience with Superior or Becker Mills? They all sound like they are well made but don't want to make a decision only on price.

Okay - I did it. I ordered a mill.

I ordered a Superior mill with a 24' tower and 70" fan. $2300

I will update this thread with photos and let you know how it goes and what differences if any I see in my pond. Now to learn some more about the start up procedure....

Hello all,

Well, today I finished up my windmill project! Not a little weekend project - atleast not when primarily doing it by oneself. I am sure many of you know much more about ponds and windmills than I, but thought Id post some of my project photos for anyone interested. Modifying Jeeps is a hobby of mine so posting and reading/seeing others builds is always fun for me so I thougth Id do the same thing with this mill.

First of all a windmill is very similar to an adult version erector set. It was a lot of work but very enjoyable. If you have pneumatic tools it will make the thousands of nuts and bolts go MUCH faster. I built the tower and fan at my home rather than at the pond site. This made things easier for me but the transport of a 24' tower was a little tricky.

This is how the Windmill looks when UPS drops it off. About 300lbs of little galvanized parts packed in 8 boxes.


Very few parts are the same - most are different lengths and are used in and for different sections, fortunately all were well labled. The directions were so-so but all in all it was not that difficult. I started building it in my garage and quickly realized that it needed to be moved out into my drive way.


After the tower I built the fan - not really difficult, just a pain to work with because of all the parts.


Once the tower and fan were complete I borrowed a flat bed and loaded everything up. I was not to worried about the length - I figured it would hang over the end of the traler without any problem, but I had not considered the width at the base. It measures about 10'-6" wide at the base. So I decided to transport it really early yesterday morning when fewer people would be on the road.
Here are a couple bad photos of the windmill loaded up.



Fortunately, the 18 mile tip went smoothly and I had no problems. I spent half my Saturday digging for and pouring the foundation along with a few other things. I measured and re-measured about 10 times before putting in the anchor pins into the concrete piers. If that would have been messed up it would have been a nightmare!

Today, I connected the fan to the pump and installed it to the top of the tower. I ran all the air lines, got the two diffusers ready by running the weighted air line into a plastic bucket with rocks in the bottom (keeps the bottom of the pond from getting stirred up when the difusser rests on the bottom and insures it lays flat.)

Fortunately my Father-in-law came by to help me stand this thing up. It is supposed to take 4-5 guys to stand so two is a lot better than 1. I figured two guys and a warn winch could do the job. It stood without a problem and fortunately my foundation measurements were right on. Within a few more hours I had the air lines connected and diffusers set. It was great to see the air flow even in a slight breeze. I don't know if one mill this size will make much of an impact on water quality in a pond this size (time will tell) but If nothing else, I like looking at it!

A well chronicled adventure in a beautiful setting. Show us some bubbles when you finish.

Been there, done that (with a shorter tower, fortunately ). Did you wish you had 3 arms, one attached to another body, while you were assembling the blades?

I like looking at mine, too.

Nice post Idaho, I have always wanted that exact windmill! Did you get the inline pressure gauge so you can measure the output performance? I second the request to get a snapshgot of the boil

Thanks guys,

Yes putting that fan together was a real pain. It was difficult to reach in to tighten the nuts once the blades were in place. An extra arm/hand would have made things much easier.

Eastland, Yes I did get the inline pressure gauge. The system runs two diffusers and will have a freeze tank installed once it shows up. I set one diffuser at about 10' deep and the other at about 15'. I will take some photos of the bubbles this week. When the wind really kicks up the bubbles really get going.

I sure want to know what you are seeing, they claim 3 cfm with a 9 mph wind, please post your best guess readings. I really like the windmill because it's more natural, the last thing I want to hear while fishing is a compressor running.

How is the dual diffuser manifold working, can you pretty much split the flow evenly when they are at different depths?

Have you noticed anything you don't like performance wise? What percent of the time do you see it aerating? I know...lots and lots of questions.

I don't really know how I can determine cfm - the gauge only gives me pressure. I definitely do not regret the mill - as it is now free to operate. It also adds a lot to the feel and look of the pond. I am skeptical if one mill will make much of a difference however to an almost 4 acre pond.

The diffuser manifold is pretty simple and I thought I would have to adjust the air flow to balance it out but both valves are wide open and both diffusers appear to be producing roughly the same amount of air. I have one diffuser out about 25' further and 5'+/- deeper yet still about the same air flow.

I would say that performance seems good - if the wind blows, it produces air. I have noticed that it takes a sustained breeze for about 15-20 seconds before enough pressure is built up to push out air. So performance is obviously greatly dependant on wind or lack of. I have also noticed that it takes more than the lightest breeze to turn the fan. I would say that it needs to be up around 2-3mph to turn the fan fast enough to push out air. I have no way of measuring wind speed - just a guess. Percentage of aeration will just depend on the day and location... I am guessing at my pond that this time of year it will run about 75% of the time. We get calm mornings and evenings and usually have a breeze or wind the rest of the time. I will need to monitor it more than just a few hours however to provide any usefull information.

Additonal notes about windmills from my experiences. Once you have a windmill it is not free or cheap to operate. There is a significient cost to maintenance operation. The diaphragms need periodically changed, sometimes annually or every two yrs. Cracked diaphragms leak air and make the unit less efficient. One should annually check the nuts/bolts to make sure they are tight and parts are not loose causing damage or possible failure. Blocked airlines due to ice formation can cause the diaphragm to blow out and damage the more sensitive internal parts. As far as I know, no company supplies loc nuts for the windmill. Although loc nuts are a good option. The windmill system has several check valves that should be periodically checked, cleaned and or replaced. Windmills produce air via rubber diaphragms. They are not cheap and quick to replace. Windmills have bearings that wear out usually quicker then those for electric air compressors. Replacing bearings (at $20-30ea) is relatively time consuming and costly. Bearings can come off hard - depending. Practically all maintenance is up in the air off the ground and quite inconvenient. Lowering a windmill to the ground for maintenance is pretty time consuming. If the mill blows over - repair is costly and time consuming. In my experiences, when one considers all the time involved in extra maintenance of a windmill and the not cheap parts, compared to relatively quick bench top maintenance of a electric air compressor, operation of a windmill is not free or even cheap.

A neighbor of mine fell off the ladder working on the windmill and lost the end of a finger as he tried to grab for support and caught his finger in the angle of the leg brace as he was falling. Hospital bill costly, plus he is minus half of his finger.