Pond Boss Forums POND CONSTRUCTION Selecting a site Pond Excavation Pics

Well, we have finally started construction on our pond. We went back and forth on where to put it but finally decided on the original location that we considered...

http://www.pondboss.com/forums/ubbthread...4ee9#Post110907

Anyway, I went home for a couple of weeks (I live overseas) and was able to arrange for the excavator to be standing by with 2 dirt scrapers ready. I was able to pretty much see the entire excavation completed. When I left to return to work, we had gotten a little rain and I was actually able to see a little water in the bottom of it.

The guy running the scraper told me that the ground was like concrete and had very good clay throughout. It is 1.27 surface acres and has a levy all the way around it so I will fill it with well water. He doesn't think I will have any trouble getting it to hold water.

This first one shows how he outlined the natural treeline. He removed all the topsoil from the pond location and then put the topsoil back on top of the levy so hopefully grass will get started pretty quick.



This second pic is after he started digging.



This third pic shows the detail that he put into the levy. I love watching what laser leveled dirt scrapers can do.



This fourth pic shows the pond after 3/4" of rain. I put a flag at the waterline after the rain and 30 hours later the water had gone down about 1"




Here is a pic of the scraper at work.



I just figured out how to post pics which is good. Now I don't have to see comments from folks oggling my wife's pics from her Photobucket account (although she didn't seem to mind)!!!

Looks great Mako!

Makoclay

The pictures look great. Is this a great web sit or not?
Let us know how the water level doing. Remember if the dirt is dry it will soak up a lot of water on the first filling.

Otto

The low bank level is going to add a lot to the overall look of the property. Giving it an always there look, nice job.

Exactly what I was thinking Rad. Wish I had done that myself.

Thanks guys, I hope you are right. It was important to me to have the water level as low as possible so that I could see the actual water when looking at the pond from my home. The home will be in the trees, right by where the vehicle is parked in the first picture. My intention is to keep the lower tree limbs cleaned up so that I can look through the trees and see the pond (and hopefully waterfoul and deer).

Now if I could just get the drilling contractor out there to drill my water wells!!!

Mako
Your planing to be able to see the water level from the house is great Knowing where the water level will be when the pond is full is an important part of the whole project,

Good plan.

OTTO

WOW!!! I can't believe how much time, $$ and effort I have put in to giving the fish a place to do the Wild Thing. I added a layer of course sand over the much shallow areas. I put about 4" of course sand in the middle of the pond and on both the north and south banks. I did it for the fish, but I think it will make swimming more enjoyable as well. The fish consultant recommended 6", but I only went with 4" - the fish will just have to get used to it!!!

Pic of the sand prior to being spread...




I plan to stock the pond with LMB, HSB, BG and GSF. I understand the bass will use the sand, but what about the bream? Do I need to add some beds of gravel for them to do their thing as well or can they make due in the sand. I was unable to find sand with any gravel in it. What I purchased was what the trucking company called "concrete sand".

Sand, gravel, clay - bream are horny and versatile.

BG will do fine with clay , sand or gravel. Gravel is best followed by sand then clay IMO. Here are the links to back to back discussions of BG nesting , survival and substrate types.

http://www.pondboss.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=61272&fpart=1

http://www.pondboss.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=7628&fpart=1

BTW nice looking pond in the making. What is the plan for keeping the sand in place ?

Pics help also.

I thought about installing something to keep the sand in place, but I hope I do not need it. MOST of the sand is in an area in the middle of the pond that is horizontal so it really should not go anywhere.

For the banks, I took the sand all the way to the bottom of the pond to where it levels out (it is about 7 feet deep to the top of the levy). My thinking is that since there is sand all the way to the bottom (which is horizontal), it should stay in place. The real problem, however, is that I live overseas and I really don't have anybody available at home to install anything to keep it in place. I will go home around the end of July. I am pretty sure that the pond will not be full by then so based on what feedback I get here I can still install something.

Mako
The sand will move a little but will not move much.

Ernest
GREAT PICTURES THANKS.
OTTO

Cool Pictures. Those BG beds look like moon craters. Looks like you are going to have a verry successful BG spawn.

OK gentlemen, I have a big decision on my hands and I need some advise. Before I fill my pond, I want to go ahead and construct a pier(s). I have uploaded a picture. Hopefully the contour lines will show up and you can see the depths that I am dealing with. Basically, the pond will be around 4' deep out in front of the peninsula. This is where I brought in the river sand for the fish breeding area. The deep "holes" to the north and south are going to be about 8-10' feet in the middle

My first option was to go with the blue pier. The walkway to the "T" would be 4' x 20'. The "T" would be 10' x 30'.

Pro: nice size pier that is symetrical and would be pretty. I could probably still cast to the deeper ends.

Con: It would only be around 4 feet which would not make it good for swimming

My second option is the red design where I would utilize 2 smaller piers. I think I would build 2 because it would then give me access to both deep areas of the pond and would keep the symetrical look.

Pro:I would be able to build my pier out to the deep water.

Con:Do I really need 2 piers? Would it look bad asthetically?


The 3rd option is to build a bridge from one side to the other. I would probably elevate a place in the middle so if I ever had a small boat I could go underneath it and access both sides of the pond

Pro: I could access the perimeter of the pond without having to walk all the way around it. It is also not something that you see very often so it would be somewhat of a novelty and would give the pond a signature

Con: Would a bridge look stupid?

I got a quote for option #1 for about $6,500. It is expensive because the contractor quoted me Timber Tech deck. I think that the cost difference between the 3 options will close enough that it will probably will not factor into my decision.

Please help. I want to make the right decision. Here is a picture of my 3 options

What kind of actual pier construction are you thinking about? Based on the bux you are talking about, a floating pier might be a serious consideration...?
It will ride with the depth changes (Texas heat), keeping the pier a constant elevation over the water surface. Also affords the reasonable simplicity of moving it elsewhere (and re-configuring the shape/dimensions) if you don't like your original decision.

I would go with the red option.

My vote is with Sunil red looks good to me.

Otto

I would go with the pink option below. Here is why. A dock/pier is a central focus for much pond activity (not just fishing). Plan for multiple choices like swimming , kids wading , sight fishing the sand bed areas , a beach for wading , pic taking and fish viewing etc. I assume that the pic orientation is north is up. If so the pink location gives access to the sand/beach area with shallow water for ALL beach type activities and deeper water access from the other side of the pier. It leaves you a secluded area (the other side of the pond for fishing while others are on the pier sun bathing , swimming etc. This location gives shade in the am and sun in the afternoon for sun worshipers (wives , kids and grandkids or hung-over friends). It is close enough that the wives/daughters etc can sit on the dock and watch the kids at the beach area .

These type things are why careful thought on pond matters from people with vision are important. I am not claiming to be a visionary but I have seen this choice in person and ask all the why questions at the time. I listened. I will find a pic of the results.

I agree with Otto and Sunil, but it is always easier to spend somebody else's money. As far as your quote goes, it seems a little high to me. Usually a bid is roughly half labor and half materials, and I know a contractor won't be paying laborers over $3000 for work that shouldn't take more than a week. Lumber prices have shot up around here lately, but I still think a price closer to $4000 or $5000 including labor would be more likely.

I would go with red, having the docks in deeper water. You might get too much plant growth around a dock in only 4 foot of water?

It's hard to argue with EWEST but i stil like the red.

Okay, compromise: one pink, one red.

I am going to go with the red option. I am really hung up on maintaining a symetrical look so the pink option does not really work for me.

Ezlyman,
I think the quote came in higher because of the Timbertech boards that I want to use. The quote for regular wood was about $4,500 which is about in line with what you figured.

One more question though...I have told the builder that I want the pier to be as low to the waterline as possible. I know the maximum height of the water because I have installed an overflow pipe. What is everybody's thoughts on the height of the pier?. Are there any downsides to having a low profile pier?

Thanks for all the feedback. I am ready to get this build so I can start posting some pics of the finished product.

Most of the time the water level moves up and down with the weather so close to the water is usually a good choice


otto

I have one dock that's about 10 inches above standard full pool. Very good for canoe & swimming entry.

OTOH, three different times this Spring my wife called me at work after heavy rains and told me someone had stolen my dock. They always brought it back before I got home at 3:00 PM.

I would say set it up so that the joists are an inch or so out of the water at full pool. Your dock may disappear like Theo's during a heavy rain when the pond goes over the spillway, but that is better than having the dock joists constantly submerged.

That sounds a lot better to me

Hi,

Once again technology rules...

Mike Otto wanted me to let everyone on the forum know that he has had a major crash in his email system and webpage server and he can't use either at this time. He is working furiously to try and correct the problem and will be back on the forum as soon as he can. You can contact Mike at the office 1-940-665-2258 or 800-882-3478 from 8 am- 12 noon, Mon-Fri.

Kathy
Pond Boss Magazine
Office Manager

OK folks, I just spent 3 weeks at home and spent every bit of free time on my pond. The excavation had been completed before I went home so I just had to tie in the water well, add structure, sand, plant the grass and erect the piers. Here are a few pics. I am proud to announce that last night we started filling it.

I am really struggling to keep water on the grass. We laid it on Monday which was a day before the tropical storm Edouardo was to hit. We were right in its path and as I was laying the grass I felt like the smartest guy in the county because I was positive that Edwardo was going to dump a couple of inches of rain on my new grass. Well, as it turned out the rain from Edwardo stayed east of us and we didn't get a drop. We are struggling but I think we are keeping adequate water on the newly planted grass.

I have not seen discussion on here about planting St. Augustine grass around the perimeter of a pond but I assume that it will work out well.

Here are some pics. Any comments, questions, praise or general remarks are welcome.

This is a picture of some of the structure. I anchored MOST of the trees with concrete. I think the PVC pipe wedged into the culverts will work out well.






Here is a pic of the grass just after we laid it.



Here is a pic of one of the piers.

Wow, that is very slick, Makoclay!
Love the pond, the structure stuff, and really dig the awesome pier.
I understand the planting process for St Aug grass; just always assumed the plugs were alot smaller.

It looks like planting a living chess board.

That is gonna be a great pond!

First of all, congratulations on your pond project..I know you already have St Augustine partially sodded, but IMHO unless you get rain all the time(like in Florida)& have plenty of shade( you don't), the St Augustine would not be my first choice. I would go back in with a couple of pallets of Common Bermuda in front of your next expected rain event because it's too late in Texas to plant with seed..

Thank you all for comments. I don't disagree with David. The grass that we laid was mixed grass with St.Augustine and bermuda. It was inexpensive because it was contaminated with Bermuda but that made it more attractive to me. If the St. Augustine does not do well, hopefully the Bermuda will survive the heat and eventually take off.

The advantage of laying the blocks of grass instead of seeding is that with the lack of rain we have had I was concerned that Bermuda seed would not take root soon enough to prevent errosion. If we ever do get rain, the blocks would prevent any deep channels of water being cut into the bank.

This weekend I am going to spread more Bermuda seed throughout the blocks of grass just as a back-up plan to ensure that something grows.

The next project is stocking fish!!!

Makoclay

If you get any water in the pond you can get a small pump that will run 1 or 2 sprinklers, It will take the worry out of the grass planting.

It looks great.

otto

Our pond is pretty much done!!!! Now it is only a matter of waiting for the fish and vegatation to grow. We had problems getting it filled but were are able to finally get the bottom sealed off after an application of bentonite. The water color is staying a real pretty green which makes the wife really happy.

The piers worked out well and I am happy with the level of the piers in relation to the top of the water. I cut the overflow pipe so that the water can rise to the level it is at in this picture.



I will be filling this pond exclusively with well water. I drilled a well close to the pond and put a high volume pump on it. I have not measured it, but I think I am getting over 100 gpm. Anyway, I have plumbed it so that there are 2 different methods of putting water into the pond. Below are pictures of both. When I want to change how the water is added, I just slip on the different extension pipe.

The first is for normal use. Because the well water will not have any oxygen in it, I wanted to do something to increase the turbulance as the water hit the pond. I took a 45 degree PVC fitting and flattened it at the end. Generally, this is the application that I will use almost exclusively.



If for some reason I ever want to circulate the water in the pond and pump well water into the bottom of the pond, I would use this extension. It is a bit longer than the other one and the fitting at the end is pointed down. This will direct the water to the bottom of the pond. I am not sure if/when I would ever need this but it is an option if I ever feel I need to recirculate the water. The rope and shovel use is just for the sake of this picture. After I backfilled the trench, the discharge pipe is right at the waterline.



I ended up stocking it with only perch and minnows this year. Next spring I will stock bass and possibly some catfish. This year I put the following in it

Fathead Minnows - 12,000
Golden Shiners - 3,000
Coppernose Bluegil - 1,200
Hybrid Perch - 450
Redear - 300

also 6 domesticated ducks (roens and muskegee) but only 4 of them are still on the pond. I think the coons and coyotes got a couple of them.



The pond is about 1.25 surface acres so this amount of fish may be a bit of overkill but I lost probably 25% of those fish when I lost the water on one end of the pond.

I am about to have a couple of bald cypress trees planted right at the water line

What a great example of a job well done! It looks fantastic, Makoclay! The pond, the dock, the critters....awesome, my man!

Great job !!! You should be ok with those fish if you stock some LMB this spring. Feeding the BG will help.

Nice!

Looks great. Thanks for the pictures.

I enjoyed following your progress and want to compliment you on your success!!! It looks very natural there, which I think is important for the overall appeal.

Thanks for sharing,
Eddie

Eddie! Where ya been? How goes Manitou Marabou?

Yeah, Eddie, haven't heard from you in a while. You've got to be
building something!

The pond looks great. The addition of the well is a great idea. What did you mean by "lost the water in one end?"

-HH

Thanks for the compliments. It has been fun and the tips I have found on here have made my pond better. I am down to only 3 ducks. I think I need to build them an island so they can escape from predators.

There was a guy on here that built and sold floating islands. I corresponded with him a few months back but now he is not answering my e-mails. Does anybody know of anybody that sells islands? I think about 10-15' diameter would be about right. There was a link on here of islands that some Pond Bossers were building. Can somebody please forward me the link? I am not opposed to building my own, but I will only be home for a couple of weeks and I am not sure if I will have time to complete a construction project.

Man, the pond looks great. Love the pier.

Good idea to build your it yourself. No plans but how much fun would it be to build it yourself. Go for it.

Not a lot to report here, but I was able to go home for the holidays and do some work on our place. There wasn't much to do with the pond. I got busy planting trees so I didn't get an opportunity to build an island. We commenced an aggresive tree planting program in November and we followed it up with more trees while I was home this time.

This is one of the two cypress tree I planted at the water's edge.


We planted some live oak trees around the pond. The natural tree line is to the south and west of the pond. I planted these on the east side and left them pretty wide so it will still feel open.



Another duck picture. In the background is my fish feeder and my ATTEMPT to sink a log. When I filled the pond, it was the only one to float up. I have is suspended in the middle where I want it to sink. It is held there by fishing line. I thought that over time it would become saturated with water and sink but it hasn't happened yet. The water was too cold to get into it and tie something to it but I guess that is the next approach



We planted trees along both sides of the road going to the home site and pond. At the road entrance we planted 2 magnolia trees on either side of the front gate. Here is a pic taken from the county road. The pond is just beyond the view of the picture back to the left back behind that pick-up

Looks great Mako. You planted some good sized trees!

That green water color is awesome! Is that typical for that area?

The trees look great, magnolias' are slow growing at firt but after they get going they are great.

Did you buy the trees at a local nursery? They look great BTW.

I did get all of the trees from a local nursery. They were raised at a tree farm about 30 miles from my place. I am planning a trip home in April for a couple of weeks so hopefully I will see some well established trees.

I don't think the green water is natural, I had my pond consultant (fish salesman) add some chemical to it last year.

On the pond, I stocked minnows and perch in Nov 2008 but I am thinking about not stocking any bass or catfish until Oct/Nov 2009. That will give the perch and minnows a full year to establish themselves before any predator fish are introduced. Since I am not even living in Texas, I am not concerned with an additional 6 months. I just want to ensure that there is sustainable food sources for the bass when I do stock them.

Anybody have any thoughts on this? Should I just go ahead and stock them in April when I go home? Is fall a good time to stock bass/catfish?

My $0.02 says waiting one warm season to allow your forage base to establish is a good practice. I am, however, looking at the situation through Northern eyeballs.

I think you can put the cats in either with the bass or before. Of course, it depends on your forage stocking numbers.

However, I think it would be better to wait until later. Actually, you probably won't be able to find stocker size bass or cats in October or November.

Wow that pond looks beautiful! Good job! I noticed back earlier you said you had some problems getting the pond to hold water and had to use bentonite. Well i'm having the same problem and it's been well over 1 year now with no luck. I was just curious what process you had to go through to get it sealed off and what type of soil you were working with.

I was also curious if you ever got a chance to determine how many gallons per minute your well was pumping? I am considering drilling a well here to keep my pond topped off if I can ever get it sealed to a point where it would be worth pumping water into it. I would appreciate any information you could give me.

Thanks.

Belkins,

I never have gotten around to measuring the output of my well. The drilling contractor told me I should get between 80 and 120 gpm. I want to add an extension to the discharge pipe from the well with a discharge pipe at about 8' so that I can fill a chemical tank. When I do that, I will be able to measure the discharge.

As for the bentonite, when all the water drained out we were able to identify a few spots (small sinkholes) where it was leaking. We purchased sacks of bentonite from a local lumber yard. We then spread it out on the very bottom and disked it in with a small tractor. We only put the bentonite in on the half of the pond that was leaking the fastest. On the other half, we did not do anything because it still had some water and all my remaining fish in it. I am confident that the pond still leaks. During these cold months, we are still running the well about about 30% of the time. This summer is going to be interesting. The soil was a real course clay and we were confident that we would not even need bentonite but obviously that was not the case.

I would like to add another pallet of bentonite to the pond this spring but I am not sure how effective the application would be with water already in the pond. One issue I am fighting is that we are currently in an extreme drought. As a result, I am getting no help from rain water and all the ground around the pond is extremly dry. There are cracks in the ground very close to the pond about 1.5" think and I know we are loosing a lot of water to absorbtion.

I created an Excel spreadsheet that calculates how much water is needed to keep a pond full. The spreadsheet factors surface acres, average depth and pump output. With all this info it reports the pumping hours per year required to keep the pond full. It assumes that the bottom of sealed off and there is no significant leakage. If anybody is interested in this, send to me your e-mail address and I will e-mail it to you

If I could get 80 to 120 gpm I would do it in a heartbeat! Our well contractors here say we are more likely to get 10-20gpm. I'm not sure with the size pond I have and quite a seepage problem still that I could do much good with that kind of flow. How deep is your well? I haven't seen a pump that will even flow that high at the depths i'm looking at. What kind of pump are you using? We usually hit a nice water supply here at around 100-150 feet. If my math is correct at 20gpm it would take 2 months of 24/7 continuous pumping to fill my pond. That's granted it wouldn't be seeping out as fast as it was going in nor taking evaporation in consideration during the hot months.

I have just about ruled out a polyethylene liner mainly because of the cost and we have alot of deer in the area which i'm afraid would make a mess of it! So i've been looking at bentonite route but the thing is it seems my leak must be somewhere on the banks. The pond will leak down to a certain point (around 3 feet deep) and then stop drastically. It appears all the water is pushing out through the banks at a rapid rate. Which is weird because I always have heard once you got the bottom sealed off you pretty much had a pond. Due to the steep incline of the banks it would be really hard to get a piece of equipment in there and till the soil, spread the bentonite and compact it so I'm not sure how to approach it. I guess i'm trying to have faith in the old "time driven sealing" but after a year of waiting i'm growing impatient and tired of looking at a big hole in front of my house! It's good to hear from people who have had some of the same problems and get some ideas how to go about it. Send me that spread sheet i'd definately like to see it! send to belkins456@yahoo.com

Thanks.

Admittedly, I have negleted Pond Boss but I finally have some updates to report. Since my last post, I have had some drama at my pond but I think I am past the growing pains and on my way to a well producing pond.

As my fellow Texans will confirm, we had a really bad drought for about 2 years. All of that changed for us in August and we started to get rain. When we got our first rain, my pond turned brown and the fish just disappeared. I didn't really see too many dead along the bank but I did see a few. I think the pond turned and I had an oxygen deprivation problem so I installed an areator. Now, the pond has stayed pretty green and the fish are visible when the feeders go off - although NOT NEARLY AS MUCH as I saw them before the oxygen problem. You can see the bubbles from one of the areator diffusers on the 3rd picture.

Unfortunately, I really don't know how many fish I lost but I do think that I lost some. I have therefore stocked some additional BG since I installed my areation system and I am considering some more BG, shad, and FHMs next weekend. They probably won't reproduce this year but at least they'll be ready for next spring.

I have some ducks that I bought and put on my pond. They are domesticated Roens drakes and a few female mallard hens. Last year the hen laid eggs around the base of a tree but a varmit got the eggs so this year I am building some duck boxes. I built one and I am going to build a few more.

What kind of pump are you using? Right now I just have a 10 gpm installed.

Have you tried to do a creel survey (fishing) to see what bites ?

I have a 3 hp pump. It is a low pressure/high volume pump and runs on 220v.

I have not fished recently. The evidence that I have for fewer fish is that they are not attacking the fish food with the same verocity as before.

Reduced feeding happens as the water gets colder.

I am still not convinced that I didn't have a major fish kill but we'll see. I added some additional minnows and blue gill in November. I am hopefully optimistic that I'll see a lot of fish come back after the water warms up.

Last weekend I was bouncing a small jig on the bottom and caught this. It is the biggest I have caught in the pond. With all the stocking and feeding I have done in the past 18 months I think I'll be happy with what I've created.


If I could do anything again, I wish I had added the areatation system as soon as I started stocking. I would have never had the problem and I think I would have more fish today. Also, I would know that the stripers and Tigre Bass I stocked were still alive and well. As it is right now, I am not convinced that my bass survived my problem last year.