Pond Boss Forums INTRO Questions & Observations Fish Dealer Accountability? How do you know?

Stocked 10 ponds today with lots of different fish. I met the fish guy at the first pond and drove around with him to unload fish at various ponds. He weighed and counted the fish, put them in buckets and I took them down to the ponds and released them. I could usually keep track for the most part about how many fish were in the buckets and it always seemed to be pretty close until our last stop!

1600 2-3" redear for one of my best clients. While I was chatting with my client, the fish guy put the fish into 2 five gallon buckets and started heading to the pond? seemed unusual since we still had other fish to unload for some other ponds on the property. We caught up to him just as he was dumping them in and I told him to stop so the client could at least see what they looked like.

So we checked out the remaining fish in the bucket and headed back to the truck to get more fish. My client asked me how many more redears would go into that pond and I said at least another bucket or two. Then I asked the fish guy when we got back and he said that was all of them, he was working on loading catfish already. Kind of put me in an awkward situation. That is when the light bulb finally turned on in my head and I realized why he did what he did.

So my question after I took three paragraphs explaining the background: Approximately how many 2-3" redears can fit into a 5 gallon bucket that is filled with 1 gallon of water and only filled 75% of the way with fish and water? Hopefully someone can figure that out? Basically it would be about 3 gallons of Redears. I hope that it is close to 800 fish, but based off of stocking other fish today, think it is probably closer to 500 fish?

or less

Nate first this is common. I should not be surprised there are crooks in this industry b/c you really do have to put trust in your fish guy. I hope folks trust me b/c I do not charge enough for me to stand around and count the fish, it is based on weight. If water is tempered I just weigh out the amount and they have to trust me. Only a few times have I been accused of not having done what I said. I explained it to them and for the most part have not had issues.

Now, did you physically count the first few batches thus the last stop was to get the remainder not requiring conting of them? I have done this b/f myself and then when loading realized oh no this does not look right only to findout I got shorted on pickup and the last stop did not have his fish. I then of course weigheed and refigured and had to go back for another visit to finish off his fish. SOO if he did have less and was trying to dump what was there quickly I can see that happening.

To your question if a true 2-3 inch redear they should weigh about 18-34 lbs/1000. so you should have gotten about 42 lbs. We can get in a slam full bucket with 1.8 gals of water ( 15 lbs) 20 lbs of fish. So with 1 gal and 75% full I would guess you might have 15 lbs of fish (~578 fish). So 30 lbs total seems a little light of the 1,600 more like 1,200 fish. So many variables and if he has proven to be honorable in the past he might have had the full 1,600. Also if the fish were running small you probably got them all. If running big doubt it. Use this info how you will and hope you can trust this guy. I would talk with him and explain any time you use him in the future clients need to see the fish and you will volunteer to help weigh/count and then see what he says.

Thats why I buy my fish from a Texas Aggie. That and he is like 30 minutes away from my pond. Thanks Todd!

I had a problem alot like this a few months ago. I ordered 400 4-6 inch bluegill. There were two guys thet came to deliver the fish and while one of them was handing me a bill the other dumped one bucket into the pond and then they left. I walked down to the water and saw only a handful of bluegill and they would have been lucky to be 3" long. I think it was just a expensive snack for my hungry bass.

Three things that help in addition to the Trust factor. Tell them (the order guy and the delivery people)in advance that you want in writing what they are delivering and that you will be taking pics in the truck and as added to show the pond owners what was put in and that you want to look at all the fish before they go in the pond. Take the pics of the fish the truck and people. I have never had a problem using this method. If they show up with the wrong fish (example HBG rather than CNBG or 2in fish rather than 4in fish) then refuse delivery and call the order guy on the spot.

I know I am stating the obvious, but I think buying fish is like buying ANYTHING else. You have to seek out a reliable vendor, and be present and involved during the stocking like ewest pointed out. I have learned there are alot of people out there "selling fish", and a big fraction of them are not necessarily reliable. Not only can you get taken with the quantity of fish, you can't always rely on the quality either(ie. a few undesirable species mixed in with your order can be difficult to determine).
When Lusk stocked my forage base, I probably paid more than I would have if I would have used the guy parked in the Tractor Supply parking lot. However, I know exactly what I got.
I am very lucky to be close to Lusk, not far from Overton, and down the street from Inslee. I just think you have to do your homework if you are serious about your pond........and apparently we are!

Eddie

Out in El Dorado we're lucky to get a fish supplier to answer their phone let alone count the fish.

At least the guy that DIED and I bought the fish from was a real nice guy and I believe treated us more than fairly.

I have no idea if you really got cheated, but for the life of me I have never been able to figure out businesses that cheat their customers or treat them poorly. It makes no business sense as it's self defeating.

I got some brook trout from a supplier last year and alledgedly there were 100 fish, and I was assured they were all males. When I moved them this spring I counted only 55 and they were NOT all males. Granted I would have had some mortality, but I've never had more than 10 percent in a year, usually less. Even with the brown trout in the pond that may have stressed them I only found two brook trout morts and found more brown trout morts than brook trout.

Needless to say I have found another brook trout supplier that I have developed a relationship with on a first name basis, and the previous supplier will no longer get my business.

Why lose a customer to to make a little extra money in the short term, and not to mention potential bad word of mouth? Makes no sense.

I even had one supplier refuse to sell fish to me and refused to tell me why (I've posted that here several times) and I have gone out of my way to tell people to beware of this guy. What's really dumb is I would have bought hundreds of dollars worth of fish from this supplier on an annual basis, but now I will produce my own. And on top of that any excess fish I produce will be sold wholesale to one of his competitors! Talk about shooting yourself in the foot!

I hope he reads this! If you read this Bob Hesterman you're an idiot.

I wish that I could buy all of my fish from Cecil! I ordered 100 8" to 10" LMB from Cecil early last Fall. When he arrived, we proceeded to carefully put them into a bucket a few at a time, then into the pond. When it came time for the bill, Cecil apologized and said that he thought there was 100 but actually there was only 96 and adjusted the bill accordingly! I would have never known. It is a pleasure doing business with a stand up guy.

However Cecil, I am still waiting to see any of the pictures from that day published in Pond Boss magazine

n8ly, it sounds like you still received a large amount or redears, if they were a little smaller for the size listed, you may have your count. I would be more concerned about their survival/offspring, you need to get them thru this year to spawn next spring, they only spawn once a year as opposed to bluegill, make sure there are good deep water (4 to 6 foot) rock/pebble beds, they are a tricky fish. Many people stock them and never see them again.

I have been lucky, I visit the fish farm to pick up my fish in oxygen bags and boxes. I can always see exactly what I'm getting before introducing them to the pond. I enjoy acclimating and counting them at my own pace for record keeping.

An experience at Overton's will spoil a guy rotten, Todd is a great guy, despite being an aggie I like the way he takes time to chat, he freely lends professional advice until all your questions are answered. Heck, he once gave me "free", a pound of threadfin shad in oxygen as an experiment on a 4 hour trip to my pond, they were alive when I arrived, and spawned that same year.

I also visited the Proctor fish farm last year, they have a good setup and variety, it's close to my pond so it's convenient.

Good luck, and keep us updated !

Blaine,

Thanks for the kind words. I'm a big believer in karma so I make every effort to be on the up and up. How are those bass doing now anyway? Have they grown much?

As far as the disc you sent me with the pics we ended up using different pics but I still may use it in a future article. Don't give up hope!

Note: I am not in the pond stocking fish supplier business, but when I decided not to grow out largemouths anymore for the taxidermy market, the largemouths in a cage needed some place to go. Blaine was interested in them so I sold them to him.

Even though I have a Fish Hauler's and Supplier's permit I would rather stick to growing out fish for taxidermists and BPS'. And I would rather use reliable fish suppliers, but since I've had a few bad experiences and it's getting more and more difficult to get fish up here thanks to the feds, I am leaning more and more to producing my own fish from eggs. And what excess fish I have will be sold wholesale to nearby fish supplier.

Todd obviously knows how to treat his customers! Only met him once and he was a super guy to talk to! Hope to see him again at the convention!

Thanks for the info.
I have been busy stocking fish all week- shiners, threadfin, gizzard shad, jumbo perch, catfish, bluegill, etc.

My biggest concern with the whole redear stocking ordeal is my reputation with my client. I am not in the fish stocking business and am not trying to sell fish, I coordinate fish stockings, cause that is part of creating world class fisheries for clients. My client feels he got ripped off and I am definitely not charging him for 1600 redears, probably more like for 1000 redears. The amount of money is very minute we are talking about here. We wanted 1600 redears for his lake this spring.

It caused an awkward ordeal with one of my best clients and my reputation is worth alot more than $100. (I am however going to get that $100 back from my fish guy). I have sold over $30,000 worth of fish for this guy in just the last year. I think he will take care of the situation.

I have to say that I appreciate the nice things that have been written on this thread regarding our accountability at Overton Fisheries.

When I started in this business I made it a habit to offer a count or weight count my clients' fish. I can remember only one circumstance in a two year period when a client requested the count.

We don't offer the count anymore, but we will weigh-count upon request. Most often our clients receive more fish than they are paying for.

How do you know? I guess it's like knowing when you're in love -- you just know.

Todd,

You guys should think about expanding! How about starting an Illinois division?

This is Pond Boss working as it should. It sounds like you run a first class business Todd.

Oh and you need to open a Northern California branch as well.

Cecil,

The LMB have grown approximately 3-4" on average since September. The largest that I have seen recently was about 14.5". Most of them, with the exception of the smallest around 9" have huge bulbous bellies. There seems to be a good balance of numbers due to my catch rate and the fact that I see them regularily in all areas of the pond. I did have three 14" floaters the first couple of days after starting up the aerator but none since. I even followed the start-up proceedure but I guess you can't avoid all casualties.

I won't give up hope on those photos. My LMB are looking forward to their 15 minutes.