Pond Boss Forums POND CONSTRUCTION Creating habitat My Pond Project

Hi all, this will be a long post with a lot of pictures, I hope I don't bore anyone.

I started my pond(s) project in the summer of 2006.

I bought a Caterpillar D6C dozer hoping that would be the only tool I needed for the job.

My plan was to dig two ponds and connect them with a culvert. This was to facilitate driveway between them, as shown here:

Pond(s) plan

Here are some pictures of the very early stages of the small pond, it's only .32 acres in size:

Excavating 2006

I ran into a problem at about 8 ft deep, the gray clay was soaked, and I was afraid to get my dozer stuck. So I had to abandoned the digging for that year. I was disappointed, I wanted to get to 16 ft deep.

It was a very wet fall & winter, here is what the pond looked like the next spring/early summer:

Spring 2007

In the fall of 2006 I bought a CAT 225 excavator, as I needed to dig the small pond deeper, and knew I needed something to dig the large pond with.

The spring/summer of 2007 was very dry, I pumped out the ~7ft deep pond, and made a ramp down in, and took my CAT 225 as far in as I dared. I was able to get to ~14-15ft deep using my 225:

Deepening the small pond

I finally ended up with this:

Finished small pond

Now it was on to the larger pond with the CAT 225.

I am not an experienced heavy equipment operator, and it probably shows in my results, but here is how far I got with the large pond last summer:

Digging large pond

Cross section of channel

Unfortunately, I only got 2/3 complete with the excavation before winter & wet weather came. I can't dig in the fall/winter months if it's too wet, as my dump truck is just a Louisville tandem axle, I don't have a articulating dump. The pond stated to fill up quick:

Large pond filling

Ponds pretty full late winter

Finally, here is what they look like now:

Ponds, spring of 2008

Now, I know I have a lot of work to do with the banks, and the slopes in some areas. I wish I could have gotten everything done as quickly as the pro's do it, but that didn't happen.

All this time I have been concerned about just getting the holes dug, I really did not think about structure for fish.

Mainly, these ponds were dug because I needed the dirt to build up the land for 3 houses, mine, and my two brother's homes.

However, I want to have fish in these ponds.

What type of fish can I have up here in the north east? Some winters, the ponds could be covered with ice form November to April.

From my observation, LMB seem to be the only fish that can survive that...

What type of structure do I need in the ponds?

I have 1/3 left of the big pond to dig, should some of that be shallow? Most of the banks on what I have dug so far are 3:1 or 2:1. Do I need a shallower section with a more gentle slope for fish to spawn?

ETD, looks good. The experts will chime in shortly - they'll want to know where you are located.

I am located where the red dot is on this picture.

Western New York

Hi, ETD66SS.

Welcome to the forum.

That screen name of yours is sure going to be hard to remember.

I haven't read the entire post yet, but plan to do so.

Bruce

Important question...

Where does your water come from? I might have missed if you mentioned it already.

It's a very important concern to know if your water comes from groundwater, well or runoff.

Well, without any rain, the pond filled up from ground water to about 6 ft deep. The rest was from runoff...

I have not checked the depth yet, but a good guess would be that it's 14 ft deep at its deepest point.

There are no creeks or ditches leading to the pond. The terrain is very very flat.

Here are a couple of aerial shots from 2006 when I was struggling with the small pond, the large pond was not started yet. It will give an idea of my surroundings:

Aerial

None of those farmers' ditches run into my ponds...

14 feet of water, or basin?

I dug 18 ft down, the water is about 3-4 ft from the top of the basin.

Interesting. I'm no hydrologist, but if water fills up six feet with ground water I think that means that water can also drain down to that point via the same avenue. Does it seem like the pond is retaining water nicely during dry periods?

Back to fish for a minute. Have you considered SMB or YP?

Well, only the small pond sat for an extended period of time with water in it.

However, that was before I got it to full depth.

The basin was 8 ft deep, after winter it had pretty darn near 8 ft of water in it.

It sat in hot dry weather for 2 months before I pumped it out to finish the excavation.

From the ice melt in April, to early June, you could see the water wicking into the banks. I lost maybe 1 inch per week of water level.

This large pond, I will be pumping out soon. So I will not get a good indication of that for both ponds until next spring/summer. As I will be pumping out the large pond into the small pond and letting the excess run through my overflow system, then finish the large pond.

I do have a lot of clay, and am still wondering if I should be lining the banks of these ponds to ensure the water level does not fall drastically. So far I have not see any drastic water loss, but none of the ponds has sat a whole year without me pumping them out, etc...

As far as fish, I'll put in whatever my pond can support...

I'm not really picky.

Most ponds around here have BG & LMB.

I fished in ponds a lot around here as a kid, I don't think I ever caught a SMB.

YP = Yellow Perch?

I found this article:

Northern Michigan Ponds

Probably very close to what my pond can support up here in Western New York

Oh, I have very sandy soil. Topsoil is 7.5 ft thick of sandy loam.

EDT66SS

On my way to work but will look at the pictures sa soon as possible.

OTTO

Here is the pond site evaluation that was done by the Niagara County Soil & Water Conservation District.

Pond site Evaluation

I told him I'd like to dig to 20 feet, I only could get to an ~18ft deep basin due to the rocks in the glacial till, it was very hard digging. Some of the rocks were bigger than my CAT 225 excavator bucket could handle.

So in winter/spring, the water should be a maximum of 16.33 ft deep.

If the water can fluctuate 50 inches, it means in the middle of a hot dry summer, the water could drop to be as low as 12.16 ft deep.

I have not decided yet if I want to line the banks with clay that I dug up from the pond. It is a very silty/sandy type clay. When it's dry it just crumbles in your hands. The banks are too steep for me to pack it down with my D6C dozer, so the best I could do would be to just spread it on the banks, and hope it does not just slide down into the pond bottom.

I was supposed to stick to a 3:1 slope, but in my excavator inexperience, some of the slopes are 2:1...

I also have to assume some of the sandy loam will erode from the banks and slide down into the pond. So I will probably lose 1 ft of depth there as well...

So all in all, I will end up with a pond that will fluctuate from 15 ft of water in winter spring, to as low as 10-11 ft in a hot summer. Unless I can line the banks with clay to hold more water in the dry months. Since I can't sheep foot the clay on the side, I'm not sure I should put anything there but topsoil & seed it ASAP to stop erosion.

Here is the pond location in relation to the soil map:

Soil Map

EIA sandy loam is what makes up the banks to 7.5 ft down, then I hit clay...

EDT66ss
Got a lot to say just don't know where to start.A deep hole is great but only if it has water in it, if the sloops are to steep to pack any material on they may be to steep to walk up and down.

Do you have room to cut the top 7.5 feet back to a softer sloop then pack the clay. This will also make the access easier.

OTTO

I plan to take the Excavator around the banks and make a friendlier slope, yes...

At least get them back to 3:1, 18 degrees.

I'm just not sure if I need to pack clay there? Will the clay I have even work?

If you read that pond site evaluation, it does not say I have to line the banks with clay, it only says that is an option if I wish to do so.

The clay I have is so silty, it looks grey when I dig it up, but piled up next to the sandy loam & dries out, it almost looks the same. I'm not sure it would be good for sealing?

Here is a picture of my spoils piles:

Piles

Here are a few pictures showing the clay when freshly dug up, it does not look like this when it dries, it looks almost just like the sandy loam soil:

Clay

I could go around the banks, remove some of the soil, replace it with clay, then add a layer of topsoil, like this picture depicts:

Bank Construction

My big question is, will all that effort provide results? Or will all the diesel fuel be used in vain if the clay I have just lets the water run right through it?

Would I have to line the island banks with clay as well? I would think no?

I did dig a test hole a few years back:

Layers

I tried the soil test where you take a wad of the clay and try to roll in in your hands. My clay was very silty, and crumbled, but I could do the test and IIRC, got about a 1/2 in diameter piece to get about 3 inches long before it broke. It was certainly not like modeling clay however...

Well I measured the depth of the water tonight, a bit disappointed.

The water depth was only 11 feet, not 14 like I had guessed.

The water level to the top of the basin stands at 34 inches. So at most, the depth would be maybe~12 feet with the water table at it’s height, and as low as 8 feet deep during the dry season.

The small pond was at the same depth, 12 feet.

I still have 1/3 of the large pond to dig, I guess I will have to spend more time chipping away at that glacial till if I want a spot that is deeper...

Has anyone ever had a GPR (ground penetrating radar) geological survey performed?

The soil conservationist who has been helping me with my pond design has stated that I must not hit bedrock, as that is like adding a drain to the bottom of your pond.

I dug the basin 15 ft deep, but if I want coldwater fish of some type, I need to get to at least 20 ft deep. He told me to keep a minimum of 2 ft of glacial till between the bottom of the pond and bedrock.

I really don't have a place to dig a 25 ft deep test hole to look for bedrock, nor do I want to waste the diesel fuel to do that.

I was hoping I could get a GPR survey done. The radar's look almost like little push mowers, and I only need a small area surveyed.

I have contacted a the place that did my survey, as well as a few other places, but can't seem to come up with anyone who even has the equipment.

Oh, and yes I did think of core drilling, but that looks more costly to do than just wheeling a radar over the ground. Plus I have a lot of large rocks in the glacial till, undoubtedly you'd be drilling more than one hole due to all the rocks down there...

Any ideas?

Here is a company who manufactures the units: GSSI

I think your ground radar use would be a first here. Very interesting implications in areas where bedrock is close to the surface.

Still trying to get a hold of what is going on, This groung radar sound like a good idea espicall if it could take the place of gigging test holes. So far the smale model you describe has not been around here, but still looking.

As far as bedrock. When you dig and hit the rock stop digging and cover the rock with two feet of clay. be sure and pack the dirt.

Sometimes mother nature will not allow us to get everything we want without spending more money that the place is worth.

Have some more pictures:

Second day of pumping:

Pond level after 2 days pumping

Third day of pumping:

Pond level after 3 days pumping

The pictures helped out a lot. It still looks like the slops are steep enough that any kind of working of them adding clay would be tuff.

You have to pump them out to work, maybe they hold water good enough that no clay needs to be added.

DO YOU HAVE YOUR PLANS MADE TO COME TO THE CONFERANCE

Otto

I'm re-cutting the banks with my excavator then spreading clay with my dozer. Trying to end up with a 3:1 slope.

Banks

You will be a lot happier with the new slope send some in progress and after pictures

otto