Pond Boss Forums INTRO Questions & Observations Bob Lusk online live tonight!

Bob what were the results of the F-1 (or some Fla/Nort LMB %) that you used up in NY ?

Hey Chris, I didn't read your requests for additional experiments. If you can figure out the best, most palatable diet for redears, you might have a marketable food. Experiment with their diets. Your number two is a good one.
Another "common sense" experiment is to see if redear will still eat the "normal" foods of snails. The main reason people use redear in pond management today is to help reduce the incidence of snails, reducing the incidence of grubs in their game fish. Plus, a big redear is fun on light tackle. If you can figure out the two questions posed in my post, you will help develop another reason to grow redear sunfish...to see how big they get.

Bob,
What size bass would you stock in an established pond to upgrade the genetics?Our bass haven't had any new genetics introduced probably since the lakes were built about 25 years ago. Would you stock Florida bass to accomplish this?
Dwayne

What is your opinion on bass getting lure shy to specific lures? I know it has been discussed a lot here from time to time but I don't remember you posting on it. I fish my three acre pond nearly every day when the weather is good, mostly with just three or four different types of lures. I don't think I have experienced hook shy, or specific lure shy problems.

Eric, so far some of the bass have reached almost 8 pounds. Some of them were stocked into the lakes and left all year, others were brought inside. In my mind, the jury is still out, but I have neither seen nor heard about any bass growing a fungus or having any cold water issues. But, we'll know more about it in a year.

So all will know, we took several thousand pounds of feed trained, mixed gene pool bass to upstate NY in summer 2004. They weighed an average of 3/4 pound and we poured the SilverCup feed to them. They grew exceptionally fast. We electrofished many of them from the main growout pond and brought them into a converted dairy barn and raised them all winter in 2005 and 2006. Some of the fish stayed in the hatchery pond (about 3 acres) and those fish survived. As the fish began to hit 5 pounds at 4 years of age (normal 4 year old fish in NY is about 8-10"), we started stocking some of them in bigger fishing waters. Last January, I spoke with hatchery manager Dave Beasley and he had just stocked about 200 bass ranging from 5 to 7 pounds into the 105 acre main lake.
We need another two or three years to really see the impact.

i have heard here before that an excessive BG population could negatively affect or even prevent the spawning success of lmb in small waters.

now, what if someone (certainly not me) was crazy enough to try and manage for GSF as top predator in the presence of numerous BG. would the same relationship apply as w/ lmb, or in your experience, are GSF aggressive enough to continue to stake out their own territory and successfully recruit?

original stocking numbers as of two years ago was ~30 adult GSF which spawned twice before stocking ~1500 BG one year ago. would you care to speculate on what i might see this year?

if you answer "no" and "no" my feelings wont be hurt

thanks for any input bob, thanks for doing this tonight, this is really cool, and glad i could squeeze in a question.

edited post..hope i'm not too late......its a 1 acre pond....

Dwayne, I used to think stocking adults in existing populations was best. While I still think that strategy has merits, try finding adult Florida bass with a provable pedigree. It ain't easy and when you do find them, the price is high.
So, I started stocking the least expensive fingerlings I can find at the same time the existing bass are spawning. Typically, fingerling bass cost from $.85 to $1.25 each while the bigger fish can range to $30 per pound. So, you can buy 1,000 Florida bass fingerlings from $850-$1,250. Let's say 90% get eaten. That leaves 100 Florida bass that make it to adulthood. If only 10 of those ever make it to breed with your existing stocks, you have hit a home run.

Would zebra mussels work if I can't find snails? I will be working on a zebra mussels project over the summer so I should be able to collect them.

Bing, I have no doubt bass become suspicious of negative reinforcment. They do get hook shy. But, I think we sometimes give them too much credit for discerning which lures to ignore and which ones to eat or battle.
My opinion is this...fish, especially bass, operate on instinct and conditioning. If they are instinctively hungry and have seen a particular lure a thousand times, they'll eat it because they are hungry. And, if they are defending a territory, they'll attack an intruder, so long as they interpret the invader as an intruder. Then, there are simply times when the fish are almost in a trancelike, sleep-like state where you can throw any lure at them and they don't even see it, even if you hit them in the snout.
In that case, throw a giant rock in the pond, spook the fish and they might become more active. I have heard the pros talk about quietly fishing a spot, leave and a boat roar in, shut down, cast and get an immediate strike.
If any of us ever figure out this combination, we need to join the tour.

Bob,

Sorry I am late to the party, barge work!

I am going to monitor and record the temperature, dissolved oxygen, and PH level in our pond over a long period of time. I am thinking weekly for several years.

What is the ideal PH level range for your typical freshwater pond fish and how do you manage the PH level?

D.I.E.D., I have examined the guts of more than one GS. They eat fish, if they can. They grow faster than bluegill the same age, they are more aggressive. I have watched them outcompete bluegill for space, nesting areas and food. In my opinion, GS stocked only with BG, advantage GS.
The great equalizer is any fish with a mouth larger than a GS. However, I think by the third or fourth year, the bluegill will gain an edge simply because they spawn so often. There are times of the year when bluegill can have babies and those youngsters grow so fast the GS won't cull enough. At that point, the advantage is almost equal.
Then, I think the bluegill will outlast and outlive the green sunfish and you will begin to see it because all your GS will be large and old-looking.
Now, with all those words of psuedo-wisdom, I have no idea what will actually happen.
You are one of the only fanaticaly GSer's I know of.

By the way, do you know any private fisheries managers in Northern California with an electrofishing boat as part of their service?

Chris, Dude, keep those zebra mussels pinned up. I would hate to learn you needed bail money because zebra mussels made it into the White River.
I don't know enough about zebra mussels to know if a redear can crush them or not. I've stuck my finger down the throat of more than one giant redear to feel those bony, muscular pads grind my finger. They are strong, but I don't know just how strong.

Dwight, remind me, how large is your pond?
"Perfect" pH is from 6.2 to 7.8. But, fish can live farther than "perfect" guidelines. There are several ways to manage pH. If pH drops, aglime buffers the acids to bring the pH up. Rarely do I see pH rise too high (10.0 is getting too high). In that case, depending on what mineral or biological process is causing the upward spike, there are several ways to adjust it. The simple way is to use mild acid (expensive). If pH rises because of metabolism of aquatic plants, reduce the biomass of aquatic plants.

I will help out Chris on his last question. Several species of fish in Lake Erie have been reported to eat Zebra mussels, FW drum, perch, pumpkinseeds come to mind. I think your RES will eat the smaller individuals of Zebra mussels-possibly 1/8"-5/32" in length. I have no ideas how growth rates will be for RES on a diet of Zebra mussels. That would be good data to report -publish.

One study stated that RES did eat ZM . EW

Bob,

I mainly manage my half-acre pond for large bluegill. I enjoy winter trout, and I think I managed to get an out-of-control channel catfish situation under control. I feed most everyday that the water is over about 40 degrees at the surface.

Late last summer I found that poachers stole most of my large mouth bass that were over 10-11 inches. I've got lots of 4-7 inch LMB right now, and I put in 22 channel cats last week that are between about 12-18 inches.

Should I just let the smaller bass grow, or should I try and find some larger ones for the pond?

Thanks,
Ken

The project will be done on Lake Dardanelle which is 1/2 mile from campus, so the zebra mussels are already present.

Go Cody!
If anyone else has thoughts, facts and viewpoints, chime in!
This ain't about what I know...it's about what you want to know.
Come on! Who's next?

Robert Are you caught up and waiting for another question?

Yep

Nope

Ken,
Thanks for calling in to the RFD show Monday.
I think your small bass may quickly prove to be overcrowded. While you were poached, you may not be decimated. If you have the poaching under control, I would consider buying 10 or 15 larger bass, especially if you can get feed-trained fish.

Thank you for this site and forum. There is a lot of good information here.

Bob, Tell me everything you know about Guadalupe bass. Have you or anyone else ever spawned them in a pond? You know of anyone that kept them in a pond? I think Record G.bass is 3 lbs 11oz. Supposedly Ralph Manns is an expert on G.bass since he studies them for his master thesis.

Chris,
Then the zebra mussel research definitely has merit. I didn't know Dardanelle has them.

Billard,
The state of Texas spawns them. It's weird in the private sector. Not many people knocking our doors down to grow a bass that hits the 3 pound mark. We have to figure out another reason to grow them.
I have electrofished them from central Texas waters but they always looked long and lanky to me. They are cool looking fish with the mottling and different habitat requirements, but I have never had a single request for them...not in 29 years of doin' this stuff.

An afterthought...my experience is that they are easily outcompeted by largemouth bass. That's a big reason the state tries to avoid mixing them with lmb. Ironically, in the Lone Star State, where Texicans brag about everything large, the Guadalupe bass is our state fish.