Pond Boss Forums STOCKING A NEW POND Types of fish to choose pumpkinseed and redear? Or?

what are the benefits of adding pumkinseed or redear as a forage for lmb? I have a 1.5 acre bass pond and the water is clear. The bass are around 9-14 inches and I have around 25 if lucky but they have been spawning with new ones on the way. The pond has a green perch population and most are the size of a mans hand. Some have recommended bluegill. But why or why not consider these other perch,(in addition to bluegill) like pumpkinseed or redear?-- Just curious! I just want to provide a excellent supper (for the bass) allyear long.

You do know redear and pumpkinseed although they look somewhat a like when small are a different species right? That said redear are not as prolific spawners as bluegill and pumpkinseed prefer cooler water, and don't usually get as big as bluegill. Bluegill would be good for forage as far south as you are,and they will spawn more than once a year which is good for your bass.

Why do you southern boys insist on calling green sunfish -- green perch, and bluegills -- sun perch? Sorry but it bugs us yankees. A perch is a yellow perch to us and not even in the sunfish family. No offense meant.

broncofan: you're new to this site so probably haven't seen some of the threads about the use of common names for different species. Since we have an international readership, we have to use the best generally accepted common name for each species so that we can understand each other. There actually is a thread about some of the different local names that you might find interesting. The one that I like best came from Canada where they called summer "two months of poor snowmobiling weather".

We also use a number of abbreviations. LMB=largemouth bass. SMB=smallmouth bass. BG=bluegill. HBG=hybrid bluegill. HSB=hybrid striped bass (rather than wipers, sunshine bass etc.)

Again, the purpose of all of this is to help our mutual communication.

Thanks, Norm

We'll to answer the question why us southern boys call green sunfish ;perch. Is because that`s how we were raised. Still today When I go fishing and I don`t catch much but a few damn perch. That`s what I say, "Oh didn`t have much luck today all I caught was a Few damn perch. WE don`t call any sunfish a sunfish , we call them a damn perch!!!! I`f I caught one today it`s still a damn perch. Those nice yellow perch you have up north I really have never seen or caught or know any body that stocks them around central Texas. "NOW THAT`S A PERCH"!

Whatever you say! :rolleyes:

Come up to Indiana this winter and I'll show you some trophy size yellow perch up to 2 lbs. that come out of a hole in the ice!

Can't have one though. I'm selling them for $50.00 a piece! :p

Interesting. Here in Tennessee the only people who call our bream, shellcrackers, and sunfish perch are the transplanted Yankees.

Those transplanted yankees didn't come from the midwest. If you called a "sunny" a perch in MN, you would get some pretty odd looks. We only have one type of perch here and it is definetly yellow.

I still hope someone can now respond to the origianal question, Stocking "PERCH" such as pumkinseed, redear, coppernose or other_______along with BG! Call them sunfish if you like. I was just curious and hoping to get some useful information on positives and negatives on these other sunfish!! Please don`t leave me hangin!, what`s a real good forage to keep bass full , could crawfish help as well, please refer back to the original demensions of my pond?

Go with coppernose.They will spawn more times per year.

But I DID answer your question but you must have just noticed my ribbing!

Broncofan, as Cecil posted, bluegill seem to be the best forage for large mouth bass because they do very well in warm water and lay a lot of eggs more than once a year. Also, introducing crawfish is a great idea.
Incidentally, the large mouth bass is a sunfish.

Until you address your clear water issue, I don't think it matters much what you introduce for forage or what you name them. Without a good phytoplankton base, you will have only limited success.

Post edited 12/16/04 3:00pm

How clear is the water? 3 feet or 15 feet? Can you get your hands on a sechi disk? If you can get your hands on a sechi disk you can get an accurate measurment of the primary productivity in your pond.

Just because you have green water doens't mean that the phyto plankton is being converted into bass. Cladocerans (zooplankton like daphnia) have the ability to eat so much phytoplankton that they clear the water. The phytoplankton is still there and still producing, but there isn't as much of it.
If the water is green then the cladocerans are not eating it all. Which means that it probably isn't edible, some phytoplankton becomes toxic to defend itself from daphnia. Or it means that the forage fish ate all the cladocerans and now small cladocerans or copepods dominate the zooplankton community. Niether of these is good BG forage.
Just because you have green water doens't mean you have fish food. It can definitly help, especialy in the spring.

That's the first time I have ever heard that coppernose are a hybrid and have only male offspring. Funny how those male offsprings have produced thousands and thousands of little coppernose that have grown into big coppernose in my ponds.

this clear pond was built around 55 years ago. The state of Texas actually built it for free in exchange for the dirt for a Texas highway. I have been told about 30 years ago it did contain bass but until 2 years ago had none. I was walking along and noticed, man it sure is clear with hundreds of perch, hey I think I need to put some bass in this thang, so I did. I don`t see perch anymore along the sure now all I see are bass, and you may see alot in the summer, especially spring after spawn, little fingerlings were everywere! And while I fish for bass I can catch hand size green perch on bass lures. I even caught a green perch that was probably 10 inches, It probably was very old but it was the biggest sunfish-(perch), I`ve ever caught.I put it back hoping to catch him again someday. So these snfish receive something to helps them grow, so why not the bass? I`m sure fertilizer will help but I am unsure of the "cost" OR the "proceedure "to have that done by myself, correctly. So for now I`m thinking clear out some green sunfish and stock with Regular) bg and crawfish !!! Any other suggestions? i`M WEARY ABOUT REMOVING TOO MANY GREEN SUNFISH BECAUSE iT`S MY BELIEF THEY WILL help in overpopulated bass., maybe fertilizer is my best recommendation, how about some costly advise?

"Produces mainly males"
Note I did not say produces only males. I was under the impression that coppernose were a hybrid, and on that I was wrong. I apologize.

Bill cody says, "3. Depending on the cross (parentage) 60 to 90% are males. Number of young produced is very limited and by themselves to produce forage for bass; the bass usually will not grow any bigger than 13" due to low amount of food. Successive generations may be more prolific and produce more young but ---"

But hybrid sunfish do produce more males than females, and therefore produce fewer offspring.

"A" is for Animals.

Animals do come in all shapes and sizes.

Dudley, happy holidays to you.

broncofan:

To get the most out of your project you, your self are going to have to ask a few questions.

First, what do I want to get out of my pond project..with that you are going to need to weigh the costs. It is like any thing else, the best cost more and more money..

Secondly, you need to educate your self on what it takes to achive that goal...there are several links on this sight that will show you the ABC basics to pond management.

From reading your last post, it seems as if you have been throwing alot of different guesses at this problem and not happy with the results.

From all the study and research, I have done, Green sunfish are a hinderance to grow trophy bass. If, you are trying to grow trophy bass, that is. Green sunfish compete with your bass for the same forage. I have never heard of people using Green sunfish to keep Bass population down.

You mention a fertalization program, does your body of water have alot of water shed?? In other words do you have a big creak flowing through the pond?? If so, you need to think again on fertalizing, because you will just wash the fertalizer down the stand pipe.

It could mean that you might have to drain this body of water and start again....

Give us more detail of your overall goals for this pond and we can give you more specific answers to your questions.

By the way:
Red ear sunfish are not really used fo forage they have a different nich in the pond as more of a parasite eater..
Pumpkinseed, spawn alot but do not get that big.
Coppernose, or Blue gill are your best sunfish forage for bass, period.....

And to you, Sunil, and to the rest of the guys as well. It's been a fun year.

Broncofan, Big Pond is right. You have to design the whole thing for yourself. And, the good part is that it is winter and still deer season in wherethehellever Taylor, Texas is. It is a great time to decide on your goals which can be influenced by a lot of factors. It is a real lousy time to sit back and do nothing. I expect that all of your current and future questions have been answered multiple times on this site. Do some research here and on other spots on the internet. One weekend ought to get you a long way down the road. Most states have University and other Research areas that post on a wide variety of pond findings. They usually go from stupid level up to who cares. No matter which way you go, you will probably be disappointed without a solid plan. I believe that you posted in another area that you wanted SMB. You might be just the guy who can do it. But not without a lot of work and research.

Actually, trying something different and exotic like SMB is exciting and challenging. However, it is also like having a trophy wife. It's always extremely expensive, is guaranteed to keep you awake nights and sooner or later will force you to make a fresh start with a different game plan.

If you want to do it right, subscribe to the mag, buy Raising Trophy Bass from Lusk, do the research, read everything Bill Cody says about 3 times (it takes 3 times but is absolutely worth it) and then get ready to set and follow through on goals.

Have fun and keep your checkbook handy.

Allright I finally got some real good input, yes I guess you could say I haven`t been too terribly satisfied, but now I am getting somewhere. Someone asked "What are your SPECIFIC goals"! I can start by telling a story about my neighbors 2 acre pond, this is what I don`t want! I friend bought 30LG ,500minnows, the sunfish I`m uncertain , but it now has 10 inch green or possibly hyridBG, Like I said I`m uncertain what type, my guess is largegreensunfish. The Pond is clear full of hydrilla and full of stunted bass around 9 inches. "This is what I don`t want "stunted bass" due to a overpopulation. One could catch 15 bass in a hour, but all the same size, What I want specifically is bass that will get at least 6 pounds or more. It would be nice to have more than one type of bass for the excitement but I`m thinking I`ll just concentrate on plumping up my LMB. Now last spring I could walk the banks and notice hundreds of LMB fingerlings , I worry that too many of them will make it and over populate. In the end I just want a very exciting pond to fish with well fead Big Fat bass!!!!!!!! unstunted!!!!

The 2 acre pond I mentioned above has been around for 40 years or so, But the owner informed me that all he started out with was 30 lmb fingerlings and 500 minnows, and the bass have just been prolific!!! He told me that he has had people go fish out 60 bass within a few hours all around 9" . I my self took out around 200 for the table over the past few years. But anyways On my project I just want a controlled population of fat ,"exciting "and of course well fead bass!!!

broncofan - Is there any way that you can get us or send me a close up picture of a 9" or 10" green sunfish lying beside a ruler? I am very interested in seeing one that big.

If you want big bass buy Bob Lusk's book Raising Trophy bass and follow the instructions to the letter; no short cuts.

I`ve only caught one of that size, but if I catch him again I sure must take it`s picture , but he`s still in there , I caught him on a crank bait, last spring and put him back, I sure was amazed and it`s size!.