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#101691 - 11/09/07 11:55 PM Re: Question about raising bluegills [Re: Cecil Baird1]
Bruce Condello Offline
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I guess it would figure that when I chose my original brood stock they were fish that were outgrowing other fish. Along with feed conversion ratios, etc, it seems very plausible that we're selecting for agression as well. I intend on getting some video of this activity this winter sometime. The bluegill weren't content on trying to eat the little guy. They wanted to shake him silly.
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#101710 - 11/10/07 09:40 AM Re: Question about raising bluegills [Re: Bruce Condello]
ewest Offline
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They were not trying to eat him (but might do so) but were sending a dominance warning for all to see. If you can't run with the big dogs don't get off the porch or in this case in the tub. Often they will leave the mangled , twitching ,near dead body around for days which I can only conclude is a warning for others. \:o
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#101711 - 11/10/07 09:58 AM Re: Question about raising bluegills [Re: ewest]
Bruce Condello Offline
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That's exactly what it looked like, but they did eat him as well. \:o


Edited by Bruce Condello (11/10/07 09:59 AM)
Edit Reason: Didn't add enough emotional icons.
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#101717 - 11/10/07 11:01 AM Re: Question about raising bluegills [Re: Bruce Condello]
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 Originally Posted By: Bruce Condello

I think I'd have to have video for you to believe it. I've never seen such vicious, uncivilized behavior in my life! \:o \:o \:o


Makes me wonder how that behavior could be used to advantage. Maybe it could be used to make lazy BG bite, or something else I can't even imagine ATM. It could possibly even trigger natural hormones, boost growth or hasten maturity.
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#101718 - 11/10/07 11:47 AM Re: Question about raising bluegills [Re: bobad]
Cecil Baird1 Offline
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 Originally Posted By: bobad
 Originally Posted By: Bruce Condello

I think I'd have to have video for you to believe it. I've never seen such vicious, uncivilized behavior in my life! \:o \:o \:o


Makes me wonder how that behavior could be used to advantage. Maybe it could be used to make lazy BG bite, or something else I can't even imagine ATM. It could possibly even trigger natural hormones, boost growth or hasten maturity.


It definitely makes them feed more aggressively!
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#101719 - 11/10/07 11:50 AM Re: Question about raising bluegills [Re: Cecil Baird1]
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Oh come on guys. Are you actually trying to suggest that through his genetic manipulation that Dr. Frankenbruce has created some highly aggressive strain of BG.

I don't think that there is any empirical evidence to support that theory.

On the other hand....
.
.
.
.
.
.

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#101720 - 11/10/07 12:00 PM Re: Question about raising bluegills [Re: jeffhasapond]
Cecil Baird1 Offline
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Now that's funny Jeff!

Jeff you're not going to believe this but I would swear on a bible it's true. I noticed the teeth were distinctly more developed on two of Bruce's bluegills than my local bluegills when I received them for mouunting. Could it be a regional naturally selected adaptation, and go hand in hand with them potentially be more carnivorous?

Bruce is sending me a couple more soon. I will get close up pics of the teeth and get close ups of teeth on some local gills for comparison.
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#101753 - 11/10/07 05:24 PM Re: Question about raising bluegills [Re: jeffhasapond]
Bruce Condello Offline
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 Originally Posted By: jeffhasapond
Oh come on guys. Are you actually trying to suggest that through his genetic manipulation that Dr. Frankenbruce has created some highly aggressive strain of BG.

I don't think that there is any empirical evidence to support that theory.

On the other hand....
.
.
.
.
.
.


That's really funny. \:\) \:\) \:\)

I'm going to print out a copy of that and place it over the tank so my bluegill have something to aspire to.
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#101806 - 11/11/07 11:06 AM Re: Question about raising bluegills [Re: Bruce Condello]
jeffhasapond Offline
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 Originally Posted By: Bruce Condello
I'm going to print out a copy of that and place it over the tank so my bluegill have something to aspire to.


Well I suppose that tactic is better than suspending them over a chopping board. \:o

Actually all joking aside I would imagine that there would be some validity to the theory that your BG would ultimately become more aggressive. If you are hand selecting the largest BG then I would think that they would also be the most dominant BG and therefore possibly more aggressive??? Sounds possible to me. I have send an email to Myth Busters for some independent verification.

Oh and while I have your attention Bruce, I just read the article in Pond Boss (and now have to wait in a nervous state of suspense for two darn months to find out what happened) anyhoo I had no idea that the situation you faced was so serious and involved so many experts. All I can say is WOW.
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#101819 - 11/11/07 12:30 PM Re: Question about raising bluegills [Re: jeffhasapond]
Bruce Condello Offline
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I'm also looking forward to seeing how the story ends. ;\)

Here's the link to Cecil's link to the sunfish linked link.

http://www.ncrac.org/NR/rdonlyres/7BBF17EA-1CD1-411D-9F0B-723EABEF0E3E/49161/Sunfish_Culture.pdf
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#101822 - 11/11/07 12:59 PM Re: Question about raising bluegills [Re: jeffhasapond]
Theo Gallus Offline
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 Originally Posted By: jeffhasapond
Oh and while I have your attention Bruce, I just read the article in Pond Boss (and now have to wait in a nervous state of suspense for two darn months to find out what happened) anyhoo I had no idea that the situation you faced was so serious and involved so many experts. All I can say is WOW.


I can only hope that Bruce, having successfully created his first mystery, doesn't end up like that Angela Lansbury character. It was like a different one of her friends was winding up dead every week there for a while.
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#101945 - 11/13/07 10:25 AM Re: Question about raising bluegills [Re: Bruce Condello]
jeffhasapond Offline
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 Originally Posted By: Bruce Condello
Here's the link to Cecil's link to the sunfish linked link.


Which begs the question...

How many links could a link linker link if a link linker could link links?
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#101950 - 11/13/07 10:44 AM Re: Question about raising bluegills [Re: jeffhasapond]
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About 5 per post is enough provided the linker has done the research. \:o \:D
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#103387 - 12/14/07 10:33 PM Re: Question about raising bluegills [Re: ewest]
Bruce Condello Offline
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Update on CSBG

I've been raising bluegill in a "Cecil Envy" flow-through tank that holds 450 gallons of water.

These fish are F-5's that are age-1 and 76 weeks old. Soon they will have a birthday and will be age-2's.

The average length is 203 mm.

The average weight is 255 grams.

This yields a Wr of 134.

I weighed and measured 10 of the 90 fish in the tank.

These fish were harvested from a lined pond in mid-October and took about 5 weeks of retraining to return to pelleted feed.

The sequence was as follows..

1. Introduction of night crawler pieces.
2. Introduction of krill shrimp.
3. Introduction of "Bill Cody" style softened pellets
4. Introduction of floating pellets.

The Wr's temporarily settled back into the 120's during the feed training exercise.

I was moderately surprised that these fish took a while to retrain. I figured that since they were in indoor tanks last winter that they would quickly figure out the floating pellet concept. As it turns out they were pretty skittish for a few weeks while they got used to their new surroundings.
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#103389 - 12/14/07 10:40 PM Re: Question about raising bluegills [Re: Bruce Condello]
Cecil Baird1 Offline
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I had a similar experience with smallmouth bass that I planted into a cage. They were supposedly feed trained but they acted like they had no idea what a pellet was when I put them into a floating cage. I was told many times when a fish gets into a different evironment this can happen. However that was a different supplier than the one I have now (Laggis Fish Farms Gobles, Michigan) For some reason I have no problems with his fish.

Conversely I was reading a study done on yellow perch but can't remember where I read it. Not sure if it was in one of my journals, back issue of Aquaculture or on the Internet. Anyway, they took wild yellow perch and starved them for I believe it was 8 days before they started feeding them. They got them to all feed on the pellets which surprised me. Would holding back feed for a while possibly make a difference?


Edited by Cecil Baird1 (12/14/07 10:42 PM)
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#103390 - 12/14/07 10:43 PM Re: Question about raising bluegills [Re: Cecil Baird1]
Bruce Condello Offline
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That makes really good sense. I never gave them more than 48 hours without giving in and feeding them some krill. I shoulda used some "tough love".
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#103391 - 12/14/07 10:53 PM Re: Question about raising bluegills [Re: Bruce Condello]
Cecil Baird1 Offline
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Bruce,

Forgive me if you've already covered this but any thoughts of warming your water this winter to increase the growth rate?


Edited by Cecil Baird1 (12/14/07 10:54 PM)
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#103392 - 12/14/07 11:00 PM Re: Question about raising bluegills [Re: Cecil Baird1]
Bruce Condello Offline
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I would love to, but I've had my Uncle, who is an electrical engineer crunch the numbers for me, and it seems that in a flow-through system that heating becomes really inefficient. The water just doesn't stay in the tank long enough to increase the temperature very much. Currently the water is replaced in the tank about four hours. This means that most of my energy goes to heating the discharge water. If I turned down the nozzles to .25 gpm instead of 2 gpm I would have a better ability to heat the water but the water quality would start to suffer. It's a Catch-22. Warm water or good water. I've got my choice. When I move to the farm it will be easier to do because I'll be able to visually monitor the water much more closely and I'll get a little gutsier.
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#103395 - 12/15/07 06:21 AM Re: Question about raising bluegills [Re: Bruce Condello]
Cecil Baird1 Offline
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Makes sense Bruce. I'm sure the RAS guys would also be someone to talk on how to do it most efficiently if you did do it. I have a PHD friend that raises hybrid striped bass indoors I could pass this by with and see what he has to say if you're interested. I believe he puts his water in a large tank first and allows the ambient temps of the building to do some of the warming. And of course he reuses the water. Seems like if you could insulate and isolate the area of the building and reuse your water it would become an easier goal.
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#103399 - 12/15/07 08:08 AM Re: Question about raising bluegills [Re: Cecil Baird1]
Theo Gallus Offline
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2 GPM for 24 hours is 2880 gallons a day, raised 20 degrees in temperature - that's equivalent to heating the water for maybe 50 daughter fill-the-tub, have-your-Dad-scream-about hot-water-use bubble baths every day. Just so your girls know what the fish would be getting away with.
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#103402 - 12/15/07 09:55 AM Re: Question about raising bluegills [Re: Theo Gallus]
ewest Offline
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You can put the heating system on a timer (like the sun) and vary the temps (day to night) a few degrees and it would be less costly and a more natural (diel pattern). You can match the heating to the light system (heating and light on at the same time) and be even more natural. Even a few degrees will help growth.
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#103403 - 12/15/07 11:54 AM Re: Question about raising bluegills [Re: ewest]
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Bruce, have you given thought to better insulating the tank(s) in the Winter if you heat? You could 1) put 2"-3" of closed-cell foam underneath the tank to insulate it from the floor, 2) wrap an insulation blanket around the outside of the tank to cover the sides, and 3) put a cover (perhaps closed cell foam again) over the top of the tank. Raising the "R" value of the tank itself would make any water heating effort (even if it's only retaining the ambient temperature of the well water) more effective, and IMHO be cheaper/easier than trying to do the tent thing like you've used before.
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#103404 - 12/15/07 12:10 PM Re: Question about raising bluegills [Re: Theo Gallus]
Bruce Condello Offline
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Good questions. I could probably insulate the sides and top, but it would be quite a chore this year to insulate the bottom of the tank. I'm not sure where I'd put the fish in the interim.

What would be the best insulating material that would still let light into the tank? I've convinced myself that the light going through the clear sides of the tank is beneficial to the fish.
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#103418 - 12/15/07 03:59 PM Re: Question about raising bluegills [Re: Theo Gallus]
Cecil Baird1 Offline
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 Originally Posted By: Theo Gallus
Bruce, have you given thought to better insulating the tank(s) in the Winter if you heat? You could 1) put 2"-3" of closed-cell foam underneath the tank to insulate it from the floor, 2) wrap an insulation blanket around the outside of the tank to cover the sides, and 3) put a cover (perhaps closed cell foam again) over the top of the tank. Raising the "R" value of the tank itself would make any water heating effort (even if it's only retaining the ambient temperature of the well water) more effective, and IMHO be cheaper/easier than trying to do the tent thing like you've used before.


Theo,

Actually I was thinking of both and something more substantial than the tent thing.
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#103419 - 12/15/07 04:00 PM Re: Question about raising bluegills [Re: Bruce Condello]
Cecil Baird1 Offline
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 Originally Posted By: Bruce Condello
Good questions. I could probably insulate the sides and top, but it would be quite a chore this year to insulate the bottom of the tank. I'm not sure where I'd put the fish in the interim.

What would be the best insulating material that would still let light into the tank? I've convinced myself that the light going through the clear sides of the tank is beneficial to the fish.


Clear bubble wrap?
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