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#106181 - 01/29/08 02:15 PM Re: Question about raising bluegills [Re: jeffhasapond]
george1 Offline
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Registered: 06/30/07
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Loc: Plano Texas
Back to topic “about raising bluegills” ...
Here’s picture of MPB TexArkFla Strain CNBG…. 1.5 pounds...


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N.E. Texas 2 acre and 1/4 acre ponds
Original george #173 (22 June 2002)





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#106195 - 01/29/08 06:30 PM Re: Question about raising bluegills [Re: george1]
Bruce Condello Offline
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OK, George. You're startin' to bug me now! Your fish are starting to enter my realm!

I order you to cease and desist your efforts to grow huge bluegill. I am placing a 7.5 inch limit on any future bluegill that your pond produces.

Your pond will be intesely monitored for any infractions. If you are found to be in violation you will be forced to allow me to fish the pond--unsupervised for two days--to remove any other massive specimens.

Sincerely,

Dr. Bruce Condello
Licensed aquaculturist
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#106198 - 01/29/08 06:47 PM Re: Question about raising bluegills [Re: Bruce Condello]
george1 Offline
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Registered: 06/30/07
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Loc: Plano Texas
\:\( \:D \:\/
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Original george #173 (22 June 2002)





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#106226 - 01/29/08 10:52 PM Re: Question about raising bluegills [Re: Bruce Condello]
dave in el dorado ca Offline
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 Originally Posted By: Bruce Condello
OK, George. You're startin' to bug me now! .......


i resemble that remark!

as i mentioned somewheres else......george......yer fish give me nightmares.

do you think you catch more males than females? just curious.
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#106230 - 01/29/08 11:32 PM Re: Question about raising bluegills [Re: dave in el dorado ca]
ewest Offline
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George very nice CNBG. One problem - I think those big HSB bit a chunk out of the middle of his tail. \:o -
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#106273 - 01/30/08 11:17 AM Re: Question about raising bluegills [Re: dave in el dorado ca]
george1 Offline
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 Originally Posted By: dave in el dorado ca
 Originally Posted By: Bruce Condello
OK, George. You're startin' to bug me now! .......


i resemble that remark!

as i mentioned somewheres else......george......yer fish give me nightmares.

do you think you catch more males than females? just curious.


Dave, I am not aware of more males than females but I do pay more attention to the big males. \:\)
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N.E. Texas 2 acre and 1/4 acre ponds
Original george #173 (22 June 2002)





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#106274 - 01/30/08 11:22 AM Re: Question about raising bluegills [Re: george1]
jeffhasapond Offline
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Dang George, very nice fish!
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#106275 - 01/30/08 11:23 AM Re: Question about raising bluegills [Re: jeffhasapond]
jeffhasapond Offline
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Did you catch that on a fly fishing rig?
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"My mind is a raging torrent, flooded with rivulets of thought cascading into a waterfall of creative alternatives."
...Hedley Lamarr (that's Hedley not Hedy)

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#106276 - 01/30/08 11:25 AM Re: Question about raising bluegills [Re: jeffhasapond]
jeffhasapond Offline
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Opps, just saw your post in the other thread.
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...Hedley Lamarr (that's Hedley not Hedy)

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#106291 - 01/30/08 03:29 PM Re: Question about raising bluegills [Re: dave in el dorado ca]
Cecil Baird1 Offline
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 Originally Posted By: dave in el dorado ca

i resemble that remark!

as i mentioned somewheres else......george......yer fish give me nightmares.


All I know is they must have big teeth as by the picture George is afraid to lip them. He has to use a gripping vise to do that. \:o \:o \:o
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#106301 - 01/30/08 06:01 PM Re: Question about raising bluegills [Re: Cecil Baird1]
george1 Offline
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Loc: Plano Texas
You do remember Cecil; I’m the guy who not too long ago considered BG as “bait”. Anyway that’s what the fish truck driver from Arkansas told me...
In addition to the Arkansas strain BG, Texas BG from a neighbor’s pond were stocked in our brand new pond, and then for some good reason or another, pure Florida CNBG were added to this genetic mix.

History will record that you, Condello and Cody changed me into a BG freak that wont touch his fish without a sterile “gripper”, or without wetting hands when handling fish to prevent strange fungus growths you guys keep telling me about …

I have delusions of weighing, measuring and prying into their innermost private sexual habits.
Please help me – I need counseling...
_________________________

N.E. Texas 2 acre and 1/4 acre ponds
Original george #173 (22 June 2002)





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#106308 - 01/30/08 07:40 PM Re: Question about raising bluegills [Re: george1]
Cecil Baird1 Offline
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We can't help you George. We have the same problem and got you into the addiction remember?
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#106311 - 01/30/08 08:00 PM Re: Question about raising bluegills [Re: Cecil Baird1]
ewest Offline
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Fish nuts - you bet - all of us are in this together with no way out!! ;\) - -
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#106326 - 01/30/08 09:59 PM Re: Question about raising bluegills [Re: ewest]
Bill Cody Offline
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Hey George, There are people in Texas that say bluegills (aka perch) do not get or grow very big in Texas or some of the southern areas. Well I guess you are well on your way to proving them way wrong. Good job George.
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#106337 - 01/31/08 08:49 AM Re: Question about raising bluegills [Re: Bill Cody]
Cecil Baird1 Offline
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 Originally Posted By: Bill Cody
Hey George, There are people in Texas that say bluegills (aka perch) do not get or grow very big in Texas or some of the southern areas. Well I guess you are well on your way to proving them way wrong. Good job George.


So when they say everything grows big in Texas they are usually fibbing? ;\)

Cody comment - As usual, "It all depends". No, in George's case, he really does grow'em big in Texas. Where there is a will, there is a way and George discovered the way to do it. (Maybe our (Cody, Condello & Baird) 3 articles about growing male bgill in PBoss Mag-2006 helped him along the way.)


Edited by Bill Cody (01/31/08 09:42 AM)
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#110994 - 03/10/08 09:55 PM Re: Question about raising bluegills [Re: Cecil Baird1]
Bruce Condello Offline
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I haven't taken an "average" weight lately of my fish because I've been trying to minimize handling.

The most interesting events of the last several weeks...

I had one bluegill die. This is the first indoor mortality in the last two winters. He was a really nice one. When I removed him from the tank one morning I decided to do an autopsy. When I opened him up I discovered that he had a mass of pellets (Aquamax 600) stuck in his throat. His belly was full of pellet matter, so I'm assuming that he choked to death doing what he loved--eating.

Bill and Cecil had warned me that this might happen, so I took heed and have fed smaller pellets the rest of the winter.

On a good note, I weighed the biggest bluegill in the tank and he was a mind-boggling 350 grams. At 88 weeks that's pretty solid for a Nebraska bluegill. He was also just short of 9 inches at 225 mm.

That's a Wr of 131. I think the mean Wr is maybe in the low 120's because it's harder to maintain incredible body condition in the winter with big fish. They just require SO MUCH more food, and I'm only out there two or three times each week. I'm afraid to set the feeder settings too high because if the water quality crashes all that extra food would fry my fish. So basically I settle for excellent body condition instead of "extra excellent". \:\)

Regardless, it's working out really well.
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#110996 - 03/10/08 10:13 PM Re: Question about raising bluegills [Re: Bruce Condello]
Bill Cody Offline
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Bruce - You are wise to minimize the handling of the indoor CSBG. As you know, handling is a stress to fish and when growing them indoors one should try to keep all unnecessary stressors to a minimum. Being held indoors and in cool to cold water are tso continual stress for them and for them to stay the healthiest they will not benefit from additional stress.

Regarding the single mortality. I do not think a fish will eat itself to death. I think the combination of eating larger dry pellets to the point of fullness and then the swelling of compacted dry pellets was too much for this fish. Evidently he could not expell the pellet plug from his throat and it resulted in death. Too bad. With his appetite he could have been destined for 13".
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#110997 - 03/10/08 10:14 PM Re: Question about raising bluegills [Re: Bruce Condello]
ewest Offline
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You have created a eating disorder in BG. \:o - \:D

Blueobesity ! ! !
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#111011 - 03/11/08 05:09 AM Re: Question about raising bluegills [Re: Bill Cody]
Theo Gallus Online   content
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Registered: 05/14/04
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 Originally Posted By: Bill Cody
Too bad. With his appetite he could have been destined for 13".

This year.
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#111018 - 03/11/08 08:02 AM Re: Question about raising bluegills [Re: Bruce Condello]
george1 Offline
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Registered: 06/30/07
Posts: 3794
Loc: Plano Texas
 Originally Posted By: Bruce Condello
I weighed the biggest bluegill in the tank and he was a mind-boggling 350 grams. At 88 weeks that's pretty solid for a Nebraska bluegill. He was also just short of 9 inches at 225 mm.


Bruce, you are wearing out my conversions chart...
Am I correct in conversion of 350 Grams = 0.771617918 pounds?
Good job.
\:\)
_________________________

N.E. Texas 2 acre and 1/4 acre ponds
Original george #173 (22 June 2002)





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#111049 - 03/11/08 12:26 PM Re: Question about raising bluegills [Re: george1]
dave in el dorado ca Offline
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sounds good to me george, assuming 28 grams = 1 oz....i get 0.78 lbs..

i havent been able to check my fish since early december....for the first time in my little pond mgmt career, i cant buy a strike until the water warms up...all my BG, GSF, RES are still hunkered down somewhere and not feeding.
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#111104 - 03/11/08 08:57 PM Re: Question about raising bluegills [Re: Bruce Condello]
Cecil Baird1 Offline
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Registered: 08/08/02
Posts: 20043
Loc: Northeastern Indiana
 Originally Posted By: Bruce Condello
I haven't taken an "average" weight lately of my fish because I've been trying to minimize handling.

The most interesting events of the last several weeks...

I had one bluegill die. This is the first indoor mortality in the last two winters. He was a really nice one. When I removed him from the tank one morning I decided to do an autopsy. When I opened him up I discovered that he had a mass of pellets (Aquamax 600) stuck in his throat. His belly was full of pellet matter, so I'm assuming that he choked to death doing what he loved--eating.

Bill and Cecil had warned me that this might happen, so I took heed and have fed smaller pellets the rest of the winter.

On a good note, I weighed the biggest bluegill in the tank and he was a mind-boggling 350 grams. At 88 weeks that's pretty solid for a Nebraska bluegill. He was also just short of 9 inches at 225 mm.

That's a Wr of 131. I think the mean Wr is maybe in the low 120's because it's harder to maintain incredible body condition in the winter with big fish. They just require SO MUCH more food, and I'm only out there two or three times each week. I'm afraid to set the feeder settings too high because if the water quality crashes all that extra food would fry my fish. So basically I settle for excellent body condition instead of "extra excellent". \:\)

Regardless, it's working out really well.


Bruce,

Wow that some hog fish!

Did you take a look at his liver by any chance? (But if the fish was dead for some time before you showed up this wouldn't work) If so, was it pale? Also did he have a good amount of fat reserves in his body? My concern is overfeeding in cool water could cause liver problems. That is, they could become functional diabetics according to Dr. Paul Brown a fish nutrition biologist of Purdue. These kinds of fish will grow fast, look very robust, but may not handle stress as well as a fish that does not have this condition.

I was told by Mike Robinson of Keystone Hatcheries the same thing, that is, to stop feeding bass and bluegills below 50 F. as the fish will cotinue to eat out of reflex, but they have a hard time metabolizing the food.

I still say you could be selectivly breeding for aggressive hard feeding fish which in itself is not bad, but they could be more prone to overeating in cold water.

Just my thoughts and passing on what I have heard from these two gentlemen. Of course I could be overstating it.

If anyone would like to contact Dr. Paul Brown of Purdue I have his email. In fact maybe Bob Lusk would as the next issue is concentrating on feed issues?


Edited by Cecil Baird1 (03/11/08 08:58 PM)
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If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.







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#111115 - 03/11/08 09:55 PM Re: Question about raising bluegills [Re: Cecil Baird1]
Bruce Condello Offline
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 Originally Posted By: Cecil Baird1
...Wow that some hog fish!

Did you take a look at his liver by any chance? (But if the fish was dead for some time before you showed up this wouldn't work) If so, was it pale? Also did he have a good amount of fat reserves in his body? My concern is overfeeding in cool water could cause liver problems. That is, they could become functional diabetics according to Dr. Paul Brown a fish nutrition biologist of Purdue. These kinds of fish will grow fast, look very robust, but may not handle stress as well as a fish that does not have this condition.

I was told by Mike Robinson of Keystone Hatcheries the same thing, that is, to stop feeding bass and bluegills below 50 F. as the fish will cotinue to eat out of reflex, but they have a hard time metabolizing the food.

I still say you could be selectivly breeding for aggressive hard feeding fish which in itself is not bad, but they could be more prone to overeating in cold water.

Just my thoughts and passing on what I have heard from these two gentlemen. Of course I could be overstating it.

If anyone would like to contact Dr. Paul Brown of Purdue I have his email. In fact maybe Bob Lusk would as the next issue is concentrating on feed issues?


I did look at his liver and it was slightly light colored, but I'm not knowledgable enough to make and assumptions based on what I saw.

The fish had an insane amount of fat reserves.

My water never drops below 50 degrees in the winter, so I'm probably OK with the heavy duty feeding program.

I was unable to identify any parasite in the fish.

I don't think we'll ever know if we're selecting for rapid growth or agressiveness. Common sense would dictact that it's probably some combination of each. It would take a controlled study of some kind to tell--probably where you would have two identical tanks, some standard BG and some CSBG and feed them exactly the same and see what happens. All I really know is that it is accomplishing my goal, which is getting to 3/4 pound really fast! Since I've seen several fish from the F-2's at over 1.5 pounds I think that you can assume that the long term fitness is probably OK.

I think you're exactly right in your comments regarding health problems with fish that eat exclusively pellets, but because my fish were released into a sizable pond last summer, and I feed fatheads and krill all winter that over 50% of my total BG calorie intake comes from natural sources. I think this will be ultimately helpful.
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#111118 - 03/11/08 10:22 PM Re: Question about raising bluegills [Re: Bruce Condello]
ewest Offline
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An increase in lipids from fish oil pre winter will help avoid some of the problems associated with artificial feeding of predatory fish. Feeding them fish like FH or small shad , BBH or alewife with high protein and fish oil lipids content is an excellent way to keep winter feeding problems at bay.
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#111132 - 03/12/08 01:41 AM Re: Question about raising bluegills [Re: ewest]
Cecil Baird1 Offline
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 Originally Posted By: ewest
An increase in lipids from fish oil pre winter will help avoid some of the problems associated with artificial feeding of predatory fish. Feeding them fish like FH or small shad , BBH or alewife with high protein and fish oil lipids content is an excellent way to keep winter feeding problems at bay.


Not so sure that the alewife is so good (at least not exclusively) Fish of that family Alwifes, Gizzard Shad, Threadfine Shad, have a natural thiamine inhibitor and can cause fish to have problems due to a lack of thiamine in their diet. We've seen this in Great Lakes fish thta feed exclusively on alwifes. Early mortalities for one thing.


Edited by Cecil Baird1 (03/12/08 01:41 AM)
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