Pond Boss Forums INTRO Questions & Observations Thickness Matters

Since we are near the end of ice building season (and ready to turn the corner toward spring )it may be interesting to survey the ice thickness on Forum member ponds.

Being a one legged man for a few more weeks, I estimate Bremer Pond is in excess of 20 inches. My Brother will get an actual reading when he gets off night shifts and gets to ice fishin' in the next day or two.

Current temp -6 with 45 mph winds 4:30 PM........

1/26/08

It's 9" to 11" thick here. Note, the thinner area is near where the heat pump from the house discharges into the pond. I used a fish measuring board to catch the bottom lip of the ice hole and then measured it to the water line in the hole.

It's dang cold here too Dwight, yeasterday we had a high of 58 degrees, today we will be lucky to make it to 20 degrees.

I have an interesting situation on my pond. I have a foot of ice, covered with two inches of slush (from warm snow runoff the last few days), covered with another layer of ice and hard snow. Very dangerous.

Ice was 5"-6" thick. My windsheltered pond ice does not get as thick as fast as neighboring exposed ponds. With warm temps today and snow melted I had about 0.5"-1" of water covering ice. Cold temps tonight and next few days should refreeze and harden ice for a little more fishing before the spring thaw.

We had 3" last weekend, but this was only at the shoreline (based on visual inspection as it froze around the nesting box poles). As most of you already know, we are tree-sheltered around the entire perimeter, so the wind action is considerably lessened.
...which brings me to my question.
Wind should have nothing to do with causing water to freeze faster...right? The air temp is the air temp. Additional wind can only create wind chill, a factor that only affects living organisms in feel only on the skin. In other words, 20 degrees in zero wind vs. 20 degrees in 30 mph wind = same freeze rate.
?? ??

Wind actually speeds the delta (change) in water temperature in the direction of the air temperature by increasing the air/water interface (surface area).

But, after the surface is frozen, all is equal...?

Brett - That is probably true, but sheltered waters freeze over slower (later), thus the ice thickness is less than for ponds that froze over a few days earlier. At least that is how I explain it to myself.

Windy frozen ponds should add ice thickness faster than sheltered ponds, provided the air temp is below freezing, since the ice surface is constantly exposed to fresh, cold air. If there is no wind, there is a thin blanket of (very) slightly warmer air next to the ice that offers a little protection from the truly cold air higher up. This is the "wind chill" effect, precisely as I understand it (not to be confused with the "windshield" effect).

--------------------------------------------

I get to watch two ponds freeze at different rates this year for a different reason. The new pond has had ice cover several days more than the old pond so far this Winter. My reasoning as to "why" follows.

Most of the water entered my new pond AFTER it got cold this Fall/Winter, so the pond bottom and water temp there are lower than in my old pond (which had warm water in it all Summer, heating up the big heat sink of a bottom, which slowly releases heat into the water all Winter long). At least that's my hypothesis; the windmill aerator on the old pond certainly clouds the issue somewhat. But the ice on the new pond is notably thicker and has not thawed at the shoreline like the old pond.

The older existing pond bottoms will serve as a heat sink and slowly release stored heat from the warm season. However, I think the amount of and rate of heat released from the bottom deminishes as the winter progresses.

For sure. Probably an exponential curve.

It is now official. Bremer Pond ice is 19 inches thick. That is 3 inches thicker than last year and the thickest ice we have had for quite a few years.

Turn on the bank heaters and let's get spring rolling!

Bruce- Anytime we get a foot of ice on a lake that we are fishing we head out with the ATVs (staying away from flowing water) The slush and extra ice on top might make it a little nerve wracking as you feel yourself sinking thru it but that 12" underneath should be ample as long as your temps are around (preferably below) freezing. Of course we also feel that 6" of clear ice is fine for walking....

No ice yet this year in South Central Missouri, even though we have had many nights in single digits and days in the low 20's.
Others in the area with shallower ponds are frozen a few inches thick.

I hate to bring this up again with everyone thinking spring, but...

My brother was out this afternoon. We drove the Mule out on the pond and drilled two holes. Both had ice 26 inches thick. The ice has really been building the last two weeks. A warming trend would be welcome!

I can't hardly wait for ice to thicken enough to walk on. I might have enough today. I've never seen 26" thick ice. I see why you have a gas powered auger. For us central Ohioans it's rarely thicker than 10 cranks on a manual auger can handle.

I have a manual auger in the closet.

The guy in the red jacket looks like he knows what he is doing.
I have been reading the forum for a few years, so I thought I would sign up.

I beg to differ with your discussion on ice thickness as it relates to wind, cover, and size of the body of water. I would
wager that the 26 inches of ice on Dwight's pond is thicker than
a larger body of water in his area. When ice begins to develope in the winter, small ponds freeze over much sooner than large bodies of water. Consequently the ice is forming thickness while
the lakes are still open. Temperature is temperature. Windchill and shelter have little to do with it.

I respectfully disagree. Although the pond will freeze first it seems the lakes once they do freeze can freeze faster. Case in point is my .62 acre pond. One year I had 18 inches of ice and the local lakes has almost double that.

As soon as I can find it on another website, I will post a chart that shows how fast ice freezes depending on the temperature and how thick the ice is.

Looking at this chart is it possible that with the new ice being thinner initially during the coldest part of the winter on the bigger lakes that they freeze faster than the ponds and quickly surpass the ponds? Apparently the the thicker ice acts as an insulater and slows down freezing.

I also believe that stronger winds in really cold temps on larger bodies of water could have an effect on the freezing rate. And I'm not talking about wind chill which is simply an indicator of how fast human flesh is effected by moving air.

Cecil,

I just happen to be off for 10 days for my annual Spring
Crappie Ice Fishing Vaction in a couple days. I will take
some measurements of ice thickness on area lakes while I am
out. I would lot rather drive a heavy vehicle on Dwight's
Pond then in the middle of say Spirit Lake which is a big lake
about 50 miles east of his pond. This is especially true early
in the ice season when I am looking for walk on or drive on
ice. Perhaps it all equals out the same by the end of the
winter. I'll let you know. Your pond must have a nuclear heat
source under it.

The stick,

I look forward to hearing what you find out. Please don't assume I think I'm right, I could be wrong. I just know that that's the way it was that winter. On the other hand there may have been other factors. I don't remember one, but perhaps there was a thaw and my pond thawed and refroze where as the bigger lakes did not (takes more energy to do that on a large body of water)?

Another possiblity I thought of that could keep freezing down on ponds is snow. On our bigger bodies of water here the snow blows around and exposes the ice to the cold temps. On many ponds it just builds up.

Ever fish Devils lake in North Dakota? Not sure how thick the ice gets on the ponds in that area but one March I was there there was four feet of ice, and that is one big body of water! Everybody traverses it with vehicles.

Actually I think it was all those big perch swimming under the ice keeping the freezing down in my pond.

Cecil,

Still on vacation, but I have not forgotten about you, should
have the results for you on Monday or Tuesday. Still cold here
in SW MN.

the stick

Gotta chime in on this one. I think that another huge factor in ice thickness on small ponds is the bottom type and/or hydrology. We have a lot of beaver ponds around here and they are never as thick as the ice on the big lakes. They freeze over earlier but never get as thick. Probably the snow on them matters but also the amount of decaying vegetation. The bogs around my house this past year had a lot of water in them so that most of the vegation is submerged, but guess what, I just poked a few holes in the ice on the bog last weekend, only about 6 inches while my pond is about 20 inches. I keep my pond plowed off all winter, we've had numerous nights colder than -10, and the ice is no thicker than it's been the past two years. I don't have a lot of decaying vegetation in my pond but it is below the water table. So I think the water table keeps the ice on my pond from going too deep. Bottom line, lots of reasons for differing ice thickness.

Cecil,

I checked the ice on each of my days out on the ice in the area. With Dwight's pond at 26", the next thickest ice I found
was on a 400 acre lake about 25 miles to the north, which was
25" were ever I checked. Went to some ponds in my area, and found ice thickness from 18" to 24" The pond with the thickest
ice was about 5-6 acres. I have to agree with bz that there are
many conditions that contribute to ice thickness, but am still not convinced about the wind one on large bodies of water. I did not get to Big Spirit Lake in NW Iowa, due to the cold weather and wind we have been having here in SW MN. I wish I would have made it there to bore a hole in the middle to see what it was. Talked to one of my buds today who just returned
from Lake of the Woods which had fourty inches, but that is 500
miles north of Dwight's pond, so it is bound to be thicker. It
was -30 one morning he was there, ouch!

I e-mailed the MN DNR with the question we had on wind and ice
thickness. Their reply was that many things effect the thick-ness of ice, but had no specific answer to the wind question.

the stick