Pond Boss Forums INTRO Questions & Observations Rehabbing Mr. H's small pond

GW you are asking the tough questions now. We (several of us) looked some time back and found no reported cases of RES stunting. PS , a close cousin , yes and often. I would think that a few RES would be ok but I would keep the #s low (a half dozen adults). They can cross with WM though IIRC. I will check that tonight.

Right!!

GW - yep RES can cross with WM and are viable with 55% male F1s and can both spawn and backcross and outcross. May want to think about this before stocking them in the pond.

Thanks, ewest, what are the disadvantages of hybrids?

In your case to many big lepomis (WM, RES or Cross) eating up all the FH and overpopulating. Plus there is next to no info on the Fx WM X RES hybrids wrt outbreeding depression or reproductive output. Way to many large variables in a small pond for me.

I'll talk to Mr. H and see if he's ok with keeping it simple. Thanks again ewest.

I mentioned to Mr. H that I wanted Gar in my pond and he told me that he caught one in a local creek many years ago. Maybe he wouldn't mind one or two in his pond to thin out the WM...

I think you could thin out the warmouth just by fishing and limiting fishing pressure.

That's true Gambusia, but it's possible that the pond will see very little fishing. Besides helping thin the WM I like the idea of diversity and Gar look pretty cool when they sun themselves at the surface. Also I still hope to stock as many native fish as I can, assuming Mr. H still endorses the idea.

I collected some fish from our creek to add to Mr H's pond today. This is from the same creek that will feed Cindy's pond eventually. It's been dry until a few days ago, and I was surprised to see fish in it already. They must have moved into it from downstream during high water and now they're trapped in the deeper pools. All the easier to catch them!

I had a 10 gallon tank set up with 3 small Lepomis that I hoped to ID and I just added today's fish to it. A Gam happened to get into my net and you can see it in the video. It's not happy. Within 15 minutes of adding these fish the WM were already trying to eat the Gam! What happened to stress? They never got the chance because I took them right over to Mr H's pond and released them tonight. That makes 3 WM to date with the most recent being 3 and 3.5 inches. I hope they'll be ok in that little pond with those several thousands of FH.

Can anyone help ID the minnows? One of them is nearly 5 inches long and I suspect they are Golden Shiners. If so I won't be stocking them anytime soon.

They sure look like some kind of Shiner; to me, they are not quite as humped in back as GSH (which can look almost triangular, with the apex at the dorsal fin), and I am not used to seeing a lateral line stand out like that either.

Golden Shiner:

I have some fish like that in the pond in my neighborhood.They can get up to 10 inches long, i am referring to theos picture.Kinda looks like some grass carp as well.But i dont think the mouth is right for a grass carp? I would like to know what they are and if i should put them in my LMB and BG pond??thanx

http://www.stetson.edu/artsci/biology/custom/amb/finalfishpic/coastalsh.jpg ---- ?

ewest, the info I found for Coastal Shiners stated a max length of a little over 3" (8.2 cm) and some of the fish I collected are around 5" long. Identifying minnows looks involved now that I'm trying it. I won't be stocking any minnow species that gets over six inches long until maybe at some point when I have an abundance of predators.

Sure looks like a Golden Shiner to me. They can get pretty large. I have seen them up to 11in at some lakes in my area. I put 20 in my neighbors pond which contains only 2 Koi about 6 years ago. There is currently thousands of them swimming around all different sizes.

I was at Mr H's pond today feeding the FH and visiting. I was telling him that we were up to four WM counting the one I added yesterday. I was watching the minnows feed when I saw a little swirl at the surface just as a FH shot in a straight line for about 2 feet.

I know it's not likely that what I saw was one of the four WM chasing a FH, but it sure could've been. It just happened to be near the spot where I release the WM...

I wonder how fast these little WM will grow in pond crowded with minnows and with no other predators.

Why don't you think it was one of the warmouth?

I really do think that's what I saw Sunil. I guess it's not all that unlikely since it was in the area I release the WM and I was feeding the FH at the time.

Mr H seems to be very happy that he has fish in this pond again. It was about 4 years ago that he had a fish kill, and he hadn't seen a fish since then.

I just learned yesterday that he never did stock any LMB or Catfish in this pond. He always intended it to be a brim pond. Previously he stocked BG only and this time we're stocking RES and WM only. I think this combination will be much better than BG.

I've been warned by two different people not to mix RES and WM, but I'm going to have to do it anyway. Mr H likes RES and I couldn't give him a good enough reason not to stock them. Perhaps any possible problems will be minimized by the low fish density that I hope to have in this pond. I've already started selling the idea of stocking Gar to help us keep the herd thinned.

As of last night the ratio is up to 5 WM to 20,000 FH. Actually the FH number is probably more like 19,990 by now.

I've got an abundance of FH in this pond now, and I can only add WM one at a time since I can't buy them. So far I've added 6. I want to avoid the problems created by heavy minnow population and low predator stocking. Mr H wants RES in his pond and I wonder if that could be the solution. If we purchase and stock a few hundred RES will they help at all with FH predation? I know they won't be able to eat the large FH, but will they eat the small ones?

I asked that question a month or so ago, and the answer was that RES would not make a serious dent in FHM population. Like you, I figure they might eat some small or injured ones.

Yeah, but will the RES help control the fry/yoy of the WM if I get a heavy spawn???

RES will eat yoy/fry and attack adult FH but they won't eat many of either unless they have to for survival. See the chart below 3rd col. - note fish including gams were not found in RES stomachs.

Trans. Am. Fish. Soc., 107(5): 713-719, 1978

¸ Copyright by the American Fisheries Society, 1978

A Discriminant Functions Analysis of Sunfish (Lepomis)

Food Habits and Feeding Niche Segregation in the

Lake Pontchartrain, Louisiana Estuary

WAYNE J. DESSELLE, MICHAEL A. POIRRIER, JAMES S. ROGERS, AND

ROBERT C. CASHNER



Bluegill, Lepomis macrochirus , Green Sunfish, Lepomis cyanellus , Redear Sunfish, Lepomis microlophus ,

Pumpkinseed, Lepomis gibbosus , Longear Sunfish, Lepomis megalotis , Redbreast Sunfish, Lepomis auritus

I was looking for a photo of some RES so I could teach Mr H how to ID them and I found this one of a fish from his big pond. Now that I think of it I don't see many snails in the nearby ponds.



Then I remembered that I caught his RES on Roadrunners pretty regularly. If they're already conditioned to eating things that look like this lure maybe they'll control FH...

I have caught them on small crankbaits.

ewest, can you please send me a few hundred of those?

Thank you.

Mr H wants to stock some fish badly, as we all would in his situation. He has a pond that hasn't had fish in it for 4 years and it's in good shape now. We've agreed to stock RES in this pond with the WM and I would like to find a source of the largest RES possible. I can order some through the local feed store, but they won't come in until April, and they'll only be 2 - 3 inches long. I understand I'll probably have to wait for a while, but what are the chances I can find large (larger) RES? Does anyone know of a source near SW Georgia?