Pond Boss Forums POND CONSTRUCTION Soil questions leaking pond

In a follow up to previous post..have a 3/4 acre leaking pond..I have a well going 24/7 at rate of 20 gallons a minute since Feb...the pond has stablized at about half full...so I am still loosing water..I have read the magazine looking for a consultant to stop this leaking..does anyone know a good consultant in the San Antonio-Victoria Texas area or anywhere in the state of Texas...I want a professional opinion from start to finish on how I can fix this pond...I have talked to the Soil conservation guy but he is no much help..thanks for any input...

Send Lusk a PM. He knows everybody.

jeff, thats an expensive data set but the fact the pond stabilizes half way, w/ 20 gpm going in 24/7 (28,800 gallons/day) tells you how big yer leak is. my guess is that when the water is higher assuming you get occassional rain run-off which exceeds 28.8k gallons per day, the head pressure on the leaking area increases, and thus the leak "production" increases accordingly until the water "equilibrates" back at half pool.....this is how my pond used to be, and without supplemental water, dried up completely in a matter of a month or so.

my fix was a straightforward dig out, clay line all suspect areas, let it refill and watch, i now hold water year round although there is some seepage at full pool (due to max hydraulic pressures at full pool), and then once its down 2 to 3 feet, summer evaporation takes care of the remaining 3 to 4 feet it drops (6 to 7 feet total over the summer).


good luck, and i'm sure mr. lusk will have important feedback for you.

thanks for the input..i was trying to hold off for a year and see if it would hold more water but it doesnt look like it will..it is 6 feet deep and I have it full of cats and bg with largemouth...guess i just need to bite the bullet..I was hoping to find someone who could analyze it all and tell me what I need to do to fix it...thanks again..I will send Bob an email..

how do I send bob a PM?

go to the user list (top of this page in the toolbar) and look up: Bob Lusk
you can figger it from there

Jeff,
We just had our pond analyzed by HTS Consulting out of Houston.

http://www.htshouston.com/

Ours was a big project. We have a 35 acre pond that was repaired once before, but only the bottom 1/3. When we suffered the same as you ( filled to half way and then leveled off) we got HTS out. They drilled around 20 monitoring wells around the perimeter to the depth of the pond. Pesiometers were installed, and a 4 month monitoring commenced. This located three main areas of leak that accounted for an estimated 400-500 gpm leak rate (we had over 40" of rain in the time frame of the study). The result has been repair of approximately 11 acres of the remaining pond bottom. Due to cost considerations, the repairs were done using ESS-13. That is a whole other story.
We are filling now (just completed the repairs last week) and we have gained 20" in just 10 days on an estimated 10 acre coverage.

Jeffh:
I am available for consultation all over the US and I live in Lindsay, Texas (north of Dallas/FW area). You are welcome to call my office at 1.800.882.3478 (DIRT) between 8 and 12 weekdays and speak to Sheri. She can tell you about our phone appointments and consultations. Also, you can email me at mikeotto@ottosdirtservice.com or through our web site http://www.ottosdirtservice.com.

Jeff, pay close attention to Mike Otto. He's good; real good.

Please don't tell him I said anything nice about him.

I have sent off 4 soil samples friday, shut off the water well, and will begin the process of figuring out what is wrong..thanks for all your help..I will be contacting M.Otto..

Mike builds water holes that are homes for fish with forethought about human usage. If I ever do another one, Mike will do it. I talked to one guy that Mike had done a pond for. At that time, Mike had a D8. Those suckers are huge. He had the blade down peeling about 10 to 12 inches of dirt and also had the back rippers down preparing for the next run. Not many of them do that.

Talked with Mike Otto who by the way was more than helpful..His past experience shows with his knowledge of what will and what wont work..I appreciate his time in helping me solve this pond leakage problem...does anyone have experience with using bentonite and how much did you use?? was it based on soil samples, amt of leakage, depth of pond?? I hear anywhere from 2-8
lbs a square foot??

I put 2 tons in my ~.5 acre pond and it didn't fix it. Spread by shore and boat. Most of which went right on top of the leak. After draining the pond, I found that most of it had settled in the deepest part of the pond. The guy who I bought the bentonite from couldn't explain it. My guess is that it just slid down the step sides and didn't stick.

Here are a number of links to prior discussions on bentonite and methods to stop pond leaks. Several note the use of drilling mud in various methods. See the first link for our successful use of drilling mud.

http://www.pondboss.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=20;t=001709
http://www.pondboss.com/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=20;t=001716
http://www.pondboss.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=000081#000003
http://www.pondboss.com/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=20;t=001522
http://www.pondboss.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=20;t=001522#000001
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This is copied from a prior thread - some links work some don't. JP is working on a fix for the links.

Thanks for the links...I have talked to a bentonite distributor..he starts off recommending 2# per square foot..and on up depending on sand content..there should be a formula somewhere to estimated how much bentonite to use?? I will keep researching...the cost difference will add up quickly.. 40 tons of bentonite (enough to cover an acre) will cost 3500 including delivery...

There is a little info on this site. This is where I got mine.

http://www.seminolemud.com/treatment.html

Just wondering who has had success with bentonite how the process went...and what would make it easier..thanks in advance for the info...

i've always been skeptical of water application methods but if you can have success at $3500 for a 3/4 acre pond without draining, amen. if the leak is localized and relatively strong i can see how it might draw in the bentonite to plug itself, but if its a widespread area that is seeping, in my mind, the best fix is a drain, add clay, til it in, compact, and let it fill again...FWIW.

Actually I will drain the pond...I have been researching this leak problem for some time now..this is what I have found out for those of you interested...
1) Soil type has a lot to do with it but my samples I sent in showed 4 different types of soil throughout the pond...each with differing amts of clay..the majority of the pond has 19% clay,24%silt,and 57% sand....the other samples have more clay in them..
the soil conservation service said that should be enough clay to hold..however I have been leaking water daily..
2)You see different recommendations on amounts of bentonite to put in the pond...a lot of that has to do with the quality of bentonite.not all bentonite is the same..you need to see what the local guy has and recommends depending on soil type...
3)It is best to dry the pond out, remove all structure, and make sure all the holes, crevaces etc have been filled in before putting he bentonite down...then disk or till it in 4-6 inches..
then compact the soil...
4)One test is to get a 5gallon bucket, drill holes in bottom, place a 3-4 inch layer of gravel in the bottom..then pack the soil your going to test in the bucket about a foot or so..then saturate the soil over a several day period...if water cont. to leak out then stop..let it partially dry out (top 4-6 inches) then add a pound of bentonite to the top 4-6 inches..mixing it well with the soil...add water to the top of that..see how long it takes it to leak out...keep adding till you get it to where it doesnt leak..then some sources say add 25% to 50% more to that total to allow for depth and head pressure from the water..
which makes sense...if your going to all this trouble and expense it would be worth the extra insurance...
5)Never fully trust a dozer operator as an expert..get soil samples and do some basic tests before filling a pond..it is much easier to fix it from the start then to drain, remove all stucture, and re-do it...lessons that I have learned ..thanks for everyones intput...I appreciate this web site..it has been more than helpful...

We use a liner, called a Claymax liner, to line the inside of containment dams around tanks holding petroleum products in case of a tank leak. It is a fabric with a bentonite product sandwiched in between. Was wondering if anyone has ever used it for stopping pond leaks. It will definitely hold water.

As some on this forum may remember, we have had a huge leaking lake for the past two years. The 1st attempt at repair used a low PI clay plowed into the soil and packed. While this appeared to work at 1st, the leak was still there when the lake got near full. After another year, including 6 months of engineering study, the "fix" was the use of ESS-13 combined with truck loads of fly ash to condition the soil and add needed binders. The procedure consisted of removing the top 6-8" of sandy top soil, plowing the subsoil while adding in the fly ash, compacting this mixture, surface spraying the ESS-13, then covering with the original top soil. This was then followed by additionally compacting the top soil. After 60 days since repair, we are gaining 1" per day in depth on a 25 acre surface coverage. At the well pumping rate, this calculates to exactly the expected rise rate which would indicate the leak has been stopped. While it is still too early to claim success, I am hopefully optimistic.
I have taken lots of pictures, created a spreadsheet that tracked water loss and now water gain, evaporation estimates, rainfall and run-off, etc. If this ends up working, I will have a good testamonial for ESS-13 and quite a story to tell.

Mike great news - sounds like a PB mag article to me.

You sound just like me. After my repair I created spreadsheets to track the loss/gain etc. Now that it is getting cold (and I don't like to be out in the cold), I'm looking at a way to monitor the water level remotely (from my house) and I'm just about finished with the prototype. Maybe I'll get lucky and get to stay out of the cold.

Okay..I have shut water off since Oct 10..pond leaked a lot a first and has evenually slowed..Gone from 6 feet to 1.5 ft now..the last 3 weeks I have been pumping water out off and on....from what I can gather from my own research and talking to professionals is that I should have had the soil compacted better...I still have been unable to find someone who even for a fee will give me expert advice..My current plan is to redo the pond with compacting and 4 lbs/sq foot of bentonite ...if anybody knows a professional in the San Antonio area, please let me know..before I spend 8,000 dollars on bentonite and dozer work I would like to know where I stand...thanks...

There is someone that advertises in the PB mag. from San Marcus. I can not recall name at this time, but he is a regular advertiser and is in the pond building business.

I would start there.