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#106823 - 02/04/08 09:50 PM BG pond turned nasty!
ahvatsa Offline
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Registered: 10/02/04
Posts: 352
Loc: Poth/McCoy, Texas
Not sure what this is. Well water (from windmill)? Not expected this time of year. Lost Talapia in this pond a month ago. Any comments appreciated.






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#106828 - 02/04/08 10:35 PM Re: BG pond turned nasty! [Re: ahvatsa]
M Spinhirne Offline
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Registered: 02/16/06
Posts: 210
Loc: Montgomery, Texas
Lots of FA!. I would guess the ground water had something to do with it, but you must also have quite a bit of fertility in that water. What is in the water shed that could be adding to this amount of algae bloom?
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#106829 - 02/04/08 10:40 PM Re: BG pond turned nasty! [Re: M Spinhirne]
ahvatsa Offline
Lunker

Registered: 10/02/04
Posts: 352
Loc: Poth/McCoy, Texas
This little pond has always been fertile. Watershed is from pasture\grazing land. With rains of .5 .25x2 and a few .1 since Aug. I doubt the shed is the problem. Maybe too many BGS? Do I dare try a chemical treatment? Water temp approx. 64 degrees. Pond is 6-7' deep.


Edited by ahvatsa (02/04/08 10:41 PM)

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#106847 - 02/05/08 06:46 AM Re: BG pond turned nasty! [Re: ahvatsa]
Dave Davidson1 Offline
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Registered: 01/04/06
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Loc: Hurst & Bowie, Texas
Al, I would take a sample of the windmill water and send it to A & M. I have also used the County Health Departments but they usually only check for nasties relating to human consumption.

Watershed should not be a problem in our arid areas.

I have had that problem with untended BG ponds. Those suckers can easily create their own toilet and die off.
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It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.

Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP

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#106855 - 02/05/08 08:21 AM Re: BG pond turned nasty! [Re: Dave Davidson1]
ahvatsa Offline
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Registered: 10/02/04
Posts: 352
Loc: Poth/McCoy, Texas
Dave
I had water tested a couple years ago. High mineral content and was SAFE for human consumption. Necessary to re-test? I have some water pumps and can surface splash..."stir" the small pond a-la-Bruce. I copied some of his ideals from pics and post he shared last year. Hoping to hear more on possible chemical treatment. Again, surprised at this problem in Feb. esp. with water temp still cool.
al

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#106856 - 02/05/08 08:23 AM Re: BG pond turned nasty! [Re: ahvatsa]
Sunil Online   content
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Registered: 09/03/03
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I think you should try and swim in it to see how it feels.

Be sure to take pictures!
_________________________
Excerpt from Robert Crais' "The Monkey's Raincoat:"
"She took another microscopic bite of her sandwich, then pushed it away. Maybe she absorbed nutrients from her surroundings."


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#106861 - 02/05/08 08:59 AM Re: BG pond turned nasty! [Re: Sunil]
Theo Gallus Online   content
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Registered: 05/14/04
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Loc: Central Ohio
 Originally Posted By: Sunil
I think you should try and swim in it to see how it feels.

Be sure to take pictures!

I sense a possible threat to the reign of King Ding-a-Ling.
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#106865 - 02/05/08 09:11 AM Re: BG pond turned nasty! [Re: Sunil]
Dave Davidson1 Offline
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Registered: 01/04/06
Posts: 13429
Loc: Hurst & Bowie, Texas
Yeah, Before and After pictures.
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It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.

Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP

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#106870 - 02/05/08 09:39 AM Re: BG pond turned nasty! [Re: Dave Davidson1]
ewest Offline
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Registered: 03/08/05
Posts: 19373
Loc: Miss.
Planktonic algae bloom - thick. Cause fertile soil plus dead tilapia fertilizer coupled with warm weather and wind blowing it to one side. Notice the nice colored water on the up wind side.

What is the alkalinity? For example if alkalinity was the limiting factor and it improved to the critical point (20 ppm +-) then an explosive plankton bloom can form in a few days. Same for other possible limiting factors.

Cold rain or weather can stop it but if it does you could have rapid turnover and a fish kill . Does this pond stratify in summer ? Rapid water movement would help ( boat motor for a couple hours or a circulator ). You could spray it with a light application of a contact herbicide over about 10% of the pond. Manual removal with a net (top 2 feet only) would help.



Edited by ewest (02/05/08 09:40 AM)
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#106882 - 02/05/08 10:52 AM Re: BG pond turned nasty! [Re: ewest]
davatsa Offline
Lunker

Registered: 04/14/03
Posts: 1256
Loc: San Antonio, TX
 Originally Posted By: ewest
Manual removal with a net (top 2 feet only) would help.


You just HAD to say that, didn't you? ;\)

He doesn't need any more ideas for manual labor, let me assure you.

Seriously though, thank you for the analysis. I think you nailed our problem. We even have pockets of FA growing in the cement holding tank that gets its water directly out of the windmill (before it makes its way down to the pond in the picture). I think the tilapia fertilizer and wind are making it worse in the pond, but I think you're onto something with the alkalinity question.

There is definitely something in the well water itself that is causing much of the problem.
_________________________
"Only after sorrow's hand has bowed your head will life become truly real to you; then you will acquire the noble spirituality which intensifies the reality of life. I go to an all-powerful God. Beyond that I have no knowledge--no fear--only faith."

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#106895 - 02/05/08 11:45 AM Re: BG pond turned nasty! [Re: davatsa]
Dave Davidson1 Offline
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Registered: 01/04/06
Posts: 13429
Loc: Hurst & Bowie, Texas
Dave, get a new plastic baby bottle and fill it with the windmill water. Send it to A & M. They have instructions on their website. This is best done manually with the tractor a significant distance from the water. In other words, don't let Al near the water.

Don't tell where you are going to school or what you're majoring in.


Edited by Dave Davidson1 (02/05/08 11:47 AM)
_________________________
It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.

Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP

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#106962 - 02/05/08 09:00 PM Re: BG pond turned nasty! [Re: Dave Davidson1]
ahvatsa Offline
Lunker

Registered: 10/02/04
Posts: 352
Loc: Poth/McCoy, Texas
ewest
Believe I'll splash it first. Have 3 1-2"Honda pumps and can splash and stir the small pond quite well. Talked with Bruce and he suggested pumping top foot out. Have decided cannot give up water right now. Would you dare try the now famous "GreenClean Pro Granular Algaecide"?
Sunil theo dave thanks for the comments...i think

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#107507 - 02/10/08 10:34 PM Re: BG pond turned nasty! [Re: ahvatsa]
ahvatsa Offline
Lunker

Registered: 10/02/04
Posts: 352
Loc: Poth/McCoy, Texas
The clean-up went well today:





This is from the windmill that overflows to this pond:



and we netted a hundred of these:



The BGs were feeding on top once the surface was cleared. Plan is to stir and splash for a couple hours the next few days...we actually have a chance of rain coming!
Thanks for the help and Cecil Baird, I too wanted a "magic chemical" and have decided to deal with this naturally for now.
edit I don't think we lost any fish to this.


Edited by ahvatsa (02/10/08 10:35 PM)

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#107519 - 02/11/08 12:26 AM Re: BG pond turned nasty! [Re: ahvatsa]
Bruce Condello Offline
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Registered: 08/01/04
Posts: 8854
Loc: United States
Baby redears! Careful--they're like hornets!
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#107523 - 02/11/08 06:09 AM Re: BG pond turned nasty! [Re: Bruce Condello]
Dave Davidson1 Offline
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Registered: 01/04/06
Posts: 13429
Loc: Hurst & Bowie, Texas
Al, I went back to my small, about 1/8 acre, forage pond this weekend and it was also a nasty green but without any vegetation. I stocked it in 2006 with a couple hundred 1-2" CNBG and RES. It had some tiny native BG. Last year, I relocated several thousand by trapping and seining. I tossed in some pellets and saw only 2 inch BG of some type come up. Due to lack of rain, it is about 1/2 of full pool.

I haven't messed with it in about 7 months. Unworked forage ponds can be disastrous.
_________________________
It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.

Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP

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#107529 - 02/11/08 08:31 AM Re: BG pond turned nasty! [Re: Dave Davidson1]
Sunil Online   content
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Registered: 09/03/03
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Loc: Somerset, PA
Now that you've (Al) corralled all that green stuff to one corner, I think we can start marketing that stuff to the spa & facial industry.

We can call it "Funk."
_________________________
Excerpt from Robert Crais' "The Monkey's Raincoat:"
"She took another microscopic bite of her sandwich, then pushed it away. Maybe she absorbed nutrients from her surroundings."


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#107534 - 02/11/08 08:48 AM Re: BG pond turned nasty! [Re: Sunil]
Theo Gallus Online   content
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Registered: 05/14/04
Posts: 12369
Loc: Central Ohio
It's good to see a father and son getting Funky together.
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#107536 - 02/11/08 08:57 AM Re: BG pond turned nasty! [Re: Theo Gallus]
davatsa Offline
Lunker

Registered: 04/14/03
Posts: 1256
Loc: San Antonio, TX
As much as I'd like to admit that is me, and as often as I get my funk on, that is actually my B.I.L. in the picture.

He was lucky enough to get pond duties with papa this weekend. On the other hand, I had the arduous task of culling LMB at my mom's place this weekend. It's a hard life.

I paid my dues, though...
I raked primrose and FA from that pond for several days last summer. It's always good to get a refresher course in why I bust my tail in school.
_________________________
"Only after sorrow's hand has bowed your head will life become truly real to you; then you will acquire the noble spirituality which intensifies the reality of life. I go to an all-powerful God. Beyond that I have no knowledge--no fear--only faith."

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#107538 - 02/11/08 09:17 AM Re: BG pond turned nasty! [Re: davatsa]
ewest Offline
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Registered: 03/08/05
Posts: 19373
Loc: Miss.
Now we get the key to why the pond is like it is !!! How much primrose did you take out. If it was a bunch then the nutrients it was using up are now available for the algae. So guess what - first warm weather and loaded with nutrients and minus WP and FA the planktonic algae goes nuts. \:o
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#107539 - 02/11/08 09:23 AM Re: BG pond turned nasty! [Re: ewest]
davatsa Offline
Lunker

Registered: 04/14/03
Posts: 1256
Loc: San Antonio, TX
WOW! Good information, Eric!

It's hard to quantify how much WP I took out. It more or less covered the entire shoreline except for a few bare pockets, and it was anywhere from a few feet out from shore in some spots to up to 20 feet out in other spots. There was quite a bit of FA along with the WP, even last summer. The FA is worse now, however, now that the primrose is gone.

I never thought that nutrients that had gone to the WP would now be used for even more FA, but that makes a lot of sense.

I think the extremely hard water, plus scores of dead tilapia, minus WP have created this mess.
_________________________
"Only after sorrow's hand has bowed your head will life become truly real to you; then you will acquire the noble spirituality which intensifies the reality of life. I go to an all-powerful God. Beyond that I have no knowledge--no fear--only faith."

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#107599 - 02/11/08 07:16 PM Re: BG pond turned nasty! [Re: davatsa]
ahvatsa Offline
Lunker

Registered: 10/02/04
Posts: 352
Loc: Poth/McCoy, Texas
ewest
This pond has always been nutrient rich. Lots of trees and creek rises provide organic matter. Preventive suggestions? I'm thinking reducing #s and less feeding this summer. Color the water?
The windmill holding tank was drained and cleaned a month ago. I am surprised at the 'crap' growing in it.
Dave Davidson1
I may experiment with some cement holding tanks for forage this year.
Anyone guess how old the RES are? There was some fry also, too young to guess what they were.
Sunil
shall I ship the funk to you?

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#107603 - 02/11/08 07:56 PM Re: BG pond turned nasty! [Re: ahvatsa]
Sunil Online   content
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Registered: 09/03/03
Posts: 11486
Loc: Somerset, PA
Al, I couldn't ask you to go through the trouble, but bring some to the show this July.
_________________________
Excerpt from Robert Crais' "The Monkey's Raincoat:"
"She took another microscopic bite of her sandwich, then pushed it away. Maybe she absorbed nutrients from her surroundings."


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#107614 - 02/11/08 09:04 PM Re: BG pond turned nasty! [Re: Sunil]
Theo Gallus Online   content
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Registered: 05/14/04
Posts: 12369
Loc: Central Ohio
Al:

The eyes on the RES fingerlings look a little large: stunted 2007 (regular spawn) YOY?
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I subscribe, but won't pay Photobucket.

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#107626 - 02/11/08 10:08 PM Re: BG pond turned nasty! [Re: Theo Gallus]
ewest Offline
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Registered: 03/08/05
Posts: 19373
Loc: Miss.
Al how often does the creek run through the pond ? Possible options flushing and aeration. What do you want the pond to be ?
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#107648 - 02/12/08 06:38 AM Re: BG pond turned nasty! [Re: ewest]
ahvatsa Offline
Lunker

Registered: 10/02/04
Posts: 352
Loc: Poth/McCoy, Texas
ewest it takes a 3" HARD rain to get the creek to run over into that pond. Nearest electricity is almost a mile. This was the only green (clear) pond we had. Now with the big pond clearing that's changed. BIG BGs for the grandkids...a la cane pole is the main goal.
theo I haven't a clue on the age of the RES. I kinda thought maybe a late spawn last fall. We had a mild summer and warm fall into Nov. Our July-Aug. felt more like April May.
edit we took out 5-600 BGs last year for other ponds.


Edited by ahvatsa (02/12/08 06:39 AM)

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