Pond Boss Forums INTRO Questions & Observations Alternate stocking - Multiple Predators/Forage

I know you can get bowfins from zetts fishery at Inwood west virginia and they ship them.

Thanks buzbait! Maybe they'll be able to help me with Gar also...

Norm, late last year I added quite a few paddlefish from 8"-18" to my typical LMB,BG,RES,CC,and amur pond of 3.5 acres. I will be monitering my pond to see what effect they have.Hopefully, in ten yrs. I'll be able to harvest them .

tjstubbs, if I can get them, I'd like to add 20-25 yellow perch every winter. They'd probably get eaten during the summer but I'd like to get their early spawn for forage. I add 1-2 CC every year just so that I don't loose them completely.

As for restocking other species, I have very good records of what I stocked and when. Then we keep good records of what we catch. Then I look at what the various species add to what we are doing. Then I do a "by gosh and by golly" evaluation of what I want to do. Finally, it's a matter of what I can get.

With most species, a dozen or so individuals a year is more than enough. With LMB, SMB, HSB, walleye, HBG, crappie and goldeyes, I'll add more. If I don't think we have enough, I'd add more. If I make a mistake, I just add or take out a few fish. It's kind of fun.

Bernie H., I'd love to get paddlefish. Osage fishery in Missioui seems to be out of them all the time. I'll keep trying as they would be an interesting addition.

Norm how did you make the deduction that the only fish in your pond that were able to reproduce and then survive predation were the bluegill? It seems to me that in a four acre lake at least some of the bass each year would survive. If you are correct then how do I know what fish in my pond are in need of stocking each year.

Norm I just read through your last statement again. What if you have fish that just won't bite? The reason I say this is I went fishing on my pond today and didn't catch a single fish.

james holt, unless we caught every fish in the lake, we can't be sure about what has successfully reproduced. I've had problems with my knees all of last summer but normally we have at least 3-4 groups a week fishing our lake. Each group will catch 50-100 fish so we're looking at a large percentage of the fish. Also we fin clip everything so we can tell what we stocked and the fish that we have sampled. We only let people fish from two places. Every so often, a friend and I fish other parts of the lake to see what is there. At the end of a summer, about half of the fish we catch have been caught before.

We use fathead minnows for bait which catch certain species. Every so often we will use worms, leeches, crawfish or frogs to catch other species.

Obviously, this isn't exact but Dave Willis has some of his students sample the lake every two years which adds to our knowledge.

The point of this is that we do a lot of sampling in many different ways. You'll find this in many posts. Keep track of what you are catching, fish many different ways and keep good records. In the long run, you will have a very good idea about what is happening in your lake.

Norm I hope your knees are better.

Norm I wonder if losing most what spawns each year is occuring in my pond as well. I have a very strong predator population with hsb and lmb being dominate. I know that some of the lmb are large enough to eat the year old hsb when we stock them because we see it happen. We also very rarely catch bass that are smaller than what we have already stocked. I have also noticed that the size of the bluegill we catch is also very large which makes me think that most of the bluegill spawn is being eaten. This year I am only going to stock forage species such as shiners and bluegill and try to get a better idea if the bass are having any of their young survive predation. It probably doesn't help that the water in the pond this winter is very clear and the predators can really see their prey. I just hope that I don't lose all of my shad to predation this winter before I can get the tilapia going again. I have seen the hsb chasing the shad twice this winter driving some of them into the shore. I think the tilapia really take a lot of the stress off of the rest of the forage when they are in the pond and limit the filamentous algae to almost nothing not to mention they are good to eat. Ewest if you are having to use blocking nets in order for the fish to reach a certian size before you release them is this happening in yours as well?

james wrote: "This year I am only going to stock forage species such as shiners and bluegill"

I have to say a resounding "yeah right!"

Sunil you know me too well and understand my problem. Can you refer me to the Pond Boss counseling program for stocking addiction. I am sure I need therapy. Its just that when I go to the fish farm to buy forage the other fish are just too pretty not to take home and after reading Norms statement about all of the predation going on in his pond I am sure all of my fish have been eaten and need to be restocked.

By the way my wife thinks I am an idiot but she loves me anyway.

I'll believe that when I see it.

James lots of our forage is eaten every year but we do have good recruitment of BG and RES and LMB. I use the blocking net mostly to augment the existing fish. We can't use tilapia as they are precluded by the state. Instead I raise (growout) small BG from 2 in to 5+ inches from March to Aug. (and their spawn/yoy) inside the net as needed to add forage. I also use the process to add LMB genetics (Flas , F-1 Tiger Bass or Northerns) by raising feed trained LMB from 8 in to 12+ inches the same way. I am thinking about raising HSB the same way as we have a lot of open deep water. That depends on the success of the TShad through this year.

James, after Sunil explains "the Pond Boss counseling program for stocking addiction", you may get the notion that it's some sort of Ponzi scheme, run by the most restocking-addicted PMs to bilk money from their less afflicted brethren and use it to feed their own addiction. But it's not - just send money. Follow Sunil's directions and you will be relieved of both your addiction and your funds.

Unfortunately, due to budget cuts (not that there ever was a budget), Pond Boss no longer offers counseling for those that have lost their way.

Oddly enough, those with such afflictions are encouraged to bend to their innermost demons (Fish Farmageddonitis), if and only if detailed reports, including pictures, are submitted to the forum.

Furthermore, it is highly encouraged that, where shear idiocy is involved, for each dollar spent on the pond(s), an equal or greater amount of dollars is spent on spousal interests including, but not limited to, horses and/or ponies, cruises, unnecessary vacations, multiple visits to the spa, and last but not least, circle hooks.

james holt, how big is your lake, what is in it now, what are your goals and how much time, effort and money do you plan on spending to manage it? What are you dissatisfied with now that you would like to correct?

Norm, while you may get some answers to your questions, james really needs tough love.

Norm my goal is to catch some type of fish each time I throw a hook into the water. I went fishing on my pond Saturday and didn't even get a bite.

James, have you considered Gams, and very tiny hooks?

Gw there is not a fish that I have not considered unless I didn't know it existed. However many of the pond owners have a much more diverse fishery than I poseess due mainly to availabilty of stock. I did just place an order for fry from Anderson fish farms.

james, can you answer the other questions? Will you be satisfied with stunted sunfish of some type?

Norm I think I am like most of the people on pond boss and would like to catch a few healthy fish when we go fishing with the chance of at least one big fish. This is a new pond in the fact that it wasn't completed until 2005 and didn't fill completely until June of 07. My pond is about ten acres now and when full about twelve acres. We get all of our rain at once and are now in the middle of a dry spell and so my pond is about a foot low. You may have seen all of the fires on the news. The water is very clear in the winter but responds well to fertilizer when the water temps go above sixty degrees in the spring. Generally the color after we fertilize turns green from the phytoplankton and then by the middle of the summer turns brown from all of the zooplankton. I have stocked feed trained bass, florida bass, channel catfish, hsb, coppernose bluegill, native bluegill, black crappie, redears, golden shiners, and fatheads. In addition I also have a healthy threadfin shad population and bullheads both of which I did not stock. I also stock tilapia in the spring. I have three feeders that go off twice a day when the water is above sixty degrees. My main goal this year is to feed my predators and try to grow them to a size that is fun to catch.

James, keep in mind that I'm an amateur from a totally different part of the country. Two things strike me from your description of your lake. The first is your feeding of your fish. If they're taking pellets, they might not want any other food. Are you feeding now? Are the fish taking the pellets.

The second thing I notice is the brown water in the summer. Is this really zooplanton? Might this be tannen instead? I spent one winter at Cedar Key and was able to electrofish with a Florida fisheries crew out of Lake City. We surveyed a large lake south of Gainesville. I don't remember its name but it was almost dead. Heavy rains had brought in large amounts of tannen which had absorbed all of the oxygen. We did get one 13 pound LMB but very little else.

Do you have any fish left in your lake or might you have lost all of them? Members from the SE can advise you better than I. I suggest you have your lake electrofished to see what you really have.

Norm I am pretty sure it is Zooplankton because I had a biologist test the water and that is what he told me it was. Right now I am feeding once a day for five seconds and the feeding is sporadic I think just due to the water temps. being in the forties. Here are some recent pictures of my boat ramp that is being built in an already existing pond full of water