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#102894 - 12/03/07 09:41 PM Pond #1
Chris Steelman Offline

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Registered: 02/26/06
Posts: 1840
Loc: Red River County,Tx
I was talking to my dad the other day and he thinks it is about time to start building a pond. I have a week off between the end of deer season and the beginning of the spring semester so I am going to start clearing the site. The watershed will be about 30 acres and is mostly forested. Annual rainfall is 45-50 inches per year. I am hoping for a 2-3 acre pond.

Here is some general information.

Soil: Woodtell fine sandy loam, 1-5 percent slopes

Typical profile
0-6 inches: fine sandy loam
6-29: clay
29-45 inches: clay loam
45-72 inches: Stratified sandy clay loam to clay

This will be pond site B.


This is looking down into the ditch. The pond will be off to the right. I will get some better pictures the next time I am down there.


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#103051 - 12/07/07 08:29 PM Re: Pond #1 [Re: Chris Steelman]
Chris Steelman Offline

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Registered: 02/26/06
Posts: 1840
Loc: Red River County,Tx
I have been doing a lot of research with web soil survey over the last few days. There is so much information on that site. I have used it before but didn't see all of the menus that you can look under.

Here are some things that I found out.

The soil is considered type B and D. Here is the description from the web soil survey.

B—These soils have a moderate infiltration rate when
thoroughly wet. They are chiefly moderately deep,
well-drained soils of moderately fine to moderately
coarse texture.

D—These soils have a very slow infiltration rate. They
are chiefly clay soils that have a high swelling potential,
soils with a permanent high water table, soils with
a claypan at or near the surface, and shallow soils over
nearly impervious material. The runoff potential is high.

The pond site is all in soil type D. This makes sense because of the small wetland areas that were made when the property was clear cut back in 2004. Most of the ponds in the area have three acres of watershed per acre of pond. My watershed is all wooded so 1-2 more acres will be needed at least. After doing so more revisions I decided the watershed is about 40 acres, so I can possibly have a 7 acre pond.

The pH ranges from 4.5-6.5 at the surface. There was no lime content, so with the low pH and it would be a good idea to spread aglime. Clay content averages 40% down to a depth of 6 feet.

Everything that I have found so far has been good news, so I am excited about the possibilities.

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#103200 - 12/10/07 04:16 PM Re: Pond #1 [Re: Chris Steelman]
Chris Steelman Offline

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Registered: 02/26/06
Posts: 1840
Loc: Red River County,Tx
I talked to my dad again yesterday about building a pond. He thinks we should start with site A(refer to original post for location). This site will probably be the easiest to build on. The pond will probably be 3-4 acres with a watershed of 55 acres. The soils are similar to site B.

This picture is looking south. The dam will be just to the left of the road and the water will back up to the right.For this site we may have to worry about backing water onto the neighbors property, so I would like to get a surveyor out to get an accurate elevation.


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#104541 - 01/09/08 06:43 PM Re: Pond #1 [Re: Chris Steelman]
Chris Steelman Offline

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Registered: 02/26/06
Posts: 1840
Loc: Red River County,Tx
Started clearing the site(site B) Monday and Tuesday and put about 6 hours on the dozer. I haven't run the dozer much so it took a while to get used to how it worked.

He are some before photos.

Dam area looking east.


Looking south from upper end of the pond(east side).


Looking southeast from upper end of pond(west side).


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#105963 - 01/26/08 10:32 PM Re: Pond #1 [Re: Chris Steelman]
Chris Steelman Offline

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Registered: 02/26/06
Posts: 1840
Loc: Red River County,Tx
I had a contractor out this past Sunday. He suggested we keep clearing the site to get a better view of what we are dealing with. He also recommended that we dig some test holes with a backhoe to get a better idea of what the soils are like.

After looking at the watershed and using the Google Planimeter I think the watershed is between 65 and 70 acres.

Here is my idea for the bottom drain. I will be able to drain off the water for the duck pond that will be below the main pond and for winter drawdowns. Combining the two will help save some money because I was going to add a siphon system as well.



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#105985 - 01/27/08 11:00 AM Re: Pond #1 [Re: Chris Steelman]
BarO Offline
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Registered: 01/23/05
Posts: 473
Loc: east Texas
Hi Chris,

I have that bottom drain on my pond and it works pretty well. I like that it allows water to escape prior to major rain events and it takes the "bad" water from the bottom. My system has a 6" drain and hasn't clogged yet.
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20 acres of trees & 3/4 acre pond.

"Home of the future Texas state HSB record for Private ponds"

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#105988 - 01/27/08 11:32 AM Re: Pond #1 [Re: BarO]
BrianShpock Offline
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Registered: 08/24/07
Posts: 123
Loc: Drums, PA
So if I understand that drawing correctly the water discharges out the top of the riser under normal flow and the valve could be opened to drain the pond. What type of valve are you planning on using? I was contemplating a similar design and was looking at an alfalfa valve on the discharge end. The only thing I didnt like is the water coming out the top of the riser could cause erosion under it and cause a problem.
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#105996 - 01/27/08 12:34 PM Re: Pond #1 [Re: BrianShpock]
Chris Steelman Offline

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Registered: 02/26/06
Posts: 1840
Loc: Red River County,Tx
 Originally Posted By: BrianShpock
So if I understand that drawing correctly the water discharges out the top of the riser under normal flow and the valve could be opened to drain the pond. What type of valve are you planning on using? I was contemplating a similar design and was looking at an alfalfa valve on the discharge end. The only thing I didnt like is the water coming out the top of the riser could cause erosion under it and cause a problem.


Yep, that is how it works. I haven't decided what type of valve I am going to use. To deal with erosion you mount the pipe in a big concrete pad or place rocks were the water is going to fall.

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#105999 - 01/27/08 12:45 PM Re: Pond #1 [Re: Chris Steelman]
jeffhasapond Offline
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Registered: 07/28/06
Posts: 7613
Loc: Pond in No CA, Me in So CA
So your Dad want's you to build on site A and you start on site B. Is that a typical father/son relationship or what??? \:D

Given your background Chris, I look forward to following your progress.

What types of fish are you considering for your eventual stocking?
_________________________
JHAP
~~~~~~~~~~

"My mind is a raging torrent, flooded with rivulets of thought cascading into a waterfall of creative alternatives."
...Hedley Lamarr (that's Hedley not Hedy)

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#106002 - 01/27/08 01:01 PM Re: Pond #1 [Re: jeffhasapond]
Chris Steelman Offline

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Lunker

Registered: 02/26/06
Posts: 1840
Loc: Red River County,Tx
 Originally Posted By: jeffhasapond
So your Dad want's you to build on site A and you start on site B. Is that a typical father/son relationship or what??? \:D

Given your background Chris, I look forward to following your progress.

What types of fish are you considering for your eventual stocking?


Well, site B would be easier to build but site A will be close to the cabin that we are going to build.

I haven't really decided yet. If the pond ends up about two acres I was thinking trophy bluegill. If it is bigger than that I will go a normal LMB/BG/RE stocking.

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#106003 - 01/27/08 01:10 PM Re: Pond #1 [Re: jeffhasapond]
Brettski Offline
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Registered: 10/07/05
Posts: 6922
Loc: Illinois
Hey Chris,
I don't know alot about the drain stuff except what we went thru. I don't regret installing it, but want to throw some ideas out there for consideration. I'm not saying that this info is gospel; others can chime in.
-
We did a 6" drain, like Bar-O. We do not have any riser pipes, though. It is a very simple, straight thru the bottom of the dam kinda drain. We did install an inlet filter. Our pond is surrounded by tall timber. I can't imagine not putting a filter on our project. We used a butterfly valve; a very nice pc of equipment. It worked beautifully, but it didn't take much to clog the drain at the butterfly vane right after we installed it. I guess what I am saying is that use of a butterfly valve might very well go hand-in-hand with an inlet filter, particularly if there is any vegetation close by that will litter into (or get blown into) the pond.
Eddie Walker was building his pond about the same time and we were comparing notes on valves. IIRC, he was told that a gate valve (knife action) might collect particulate within the gasket area and hinder closing and/or sealing action when the valve is closed. About this, I dunno. Kinda makes sense.
-
At the risk of duplicating your research, I'll link you to one of my self-professed classics: Drain Valve thread
_________________________


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#106004 - 01/27/08 01:14 PM Re: Pond #1 [Re: Brettski]
Chris Steelman Offline

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Lunker

Registered: 02/26/06
Posts: 1840
Loc: Red River County,Tx
Thanks Brettski. I will check into that.

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#106006 - 01/27/08 01:16 PM Re: Pond #1 [Re: Brettski]
Brettski Offline
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Registered: 10/07/05
Posts: 6922
Loc: Illinois
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#106018 - 01/27/08 02:32 PM Re: Pond #1 [Re: Brettski]
BarO Offline
Lunker

Registered: 01/23/05
Posts: 473
Loc: east Texas
My riser pipe goes up to the conservation level(13') of my pond then back down to the horizontal pipe coming thru the dam. The top of the loop allows the pond to automatically drain(siphon effect) once it achieves full pool and quits at 13'.
_________________________
20 acres of trees & 3/4 acre pond.

"Home of the future Texas state HSB record for Private ponds"

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#106048 - 01/28/08 12:08 AM Re: Pond #1 [Re: BarO]
Chris Steelman Offline

Moderator
Lunker

Registered: 02/26/06
Posts: 1840
Loc: Red River County,Tx
 Originally Posted By: jeffhasapond
So your Dad want's you to build on site A and you start on site B. Is that a typical father/son relationship or what??? \:D

Given your background Chris, I look forward to following your progress.

What types of fish are you considering for your eventual
stocking?

JHAP,
I just remembered it is the other way around. I wanted to start at site A(easier to build) and my dad wanted to start at site B( better view). We are clearing site B right now.

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#106058 - 01/28/08 09:30 AM Re: Pond #1 [Re: Chris Steelman]
ewest Offline
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Hall of Fame 2014

Lunker

Registered: 03/08/05
Posts: 19744
Loc: Miss.
I would not use a gate valve on a bottom drain pipe on the front (water side)of the dam. Even very good well maintained ones tend to stick over time as per B'ski notes above.
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#106945 - 02/05/08 07:19 PM Re: Pond #1 [Re: ewest]
Chris Steelman Offline

Moderator
Lunker

Registered: 02/26/06
Posts: 1840
Loc: Red River County,Tx
I went by a pipe supply store today that is just off campus. The salesman showed me some 6 in. pipe that just fits together. It is called SDR 21 CL200 water pipe. He qouted me $3.44 a foot.

Does anybody know how this would compare to Schedule 40 or 80 PVC pipe?

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#106963 - 02/05/08 09:27 PM Re: Pond #1 [Re: Chris Steelman]
Theo Gallus Online   content
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Lunker

Registered: 05/14/04
Posts: 12414
Loc: Central Ohio
Chris:

Based on the descriptions here, and the fact that they position the class 200 on the light side of schedule 40 and schedule 80, I'm guessing it's lighter than those two thicknesses.
_________________________
"Live like you'll die tomorrow, but manage your grass like you'll live forever."
-S. M. Stirling

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#106965 - 02/05/08 09:39 PM Re: Pond #1 [Re: Theo Gallus]
Brettski Offline
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Registered: 10/07/05
Posts: 6922
Loc: Illinois
Hey Chris...
I just went thru all this pipe grade calculations 18 - 20 months ago. I ultimately went with 6" PVC Schedule 40, but you have to be careful. There are different grades of Schedule 40 based on the ASTM manufacturing spec. It has to do with the pressure handling capability. Not all Sched 40 is ASTM graded for pressure. Some is only DWV (drain/waste/vent). I got outstanding customer service and support from these guys . I remember, their cust service rep on the phone was a guy named Chad Presske. He was pretty darned good; bet he's moved along into management or sumthin'. Anyway, their on-line catalog is outstanding. Their hard-copy product catalog is the excavator/plumber's product bible. I would study their on-line stuff, then call them in the morning. I actually wound up buying my 6" fittings and glue from them. It was cheaper in the quantity that I used than any home center. Good product, good service, good prices.
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#106967 - 02/05/08 09:45 PM Re: Pond #1 [Re: Theo Gallus]
Chris Steelman Offline

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Lunker

Registered: 02/26/06
Posts: 1840
Loc: Red River County,Tx
The guy told me that they bury it deep but he didn't give me an actual max depth.

What size would I need if the pipe was at a depth of 15 feet?

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#106969 - 02/05/08 09:50 PM Re: Pond #1 [Re: Chris Steelman]
Brettski Offline
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Field Correspondent
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Registered: 10/07/05
Posts: 6922
Loc: Illinois
(I'm going by memory, but purdy darned sure I got it right): Based on the pub 590 spec's, at 20 feet of soil over the top of the pipe, they want to see Schedule 80. Less that that is Sched 40.
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#106970 - 02/05/08 09:53 PM Re: Pond #1 [Re: Brettski]
Brettski Offline
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker

Registered: 10/07/05
Posts: 6922
Loc: Illinois
I just searched and found an older post I made when I was closer to the actual drain installation project.
right here
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#107142 - 02/06/08 10:50 PM Re: Pond #1 [Re: Brettski]
Chris Steelman Offline

Moderator
Lunker

Registered: 02/26/06
Posts: 1840
Loc: Red River County,Tx
Brettski,

I just saw the link to e-pipeconnection. I will call them tomorrow and see what they recommend.

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#112564 - 03/23/08 09:04 PM Re: Pond #1 [Re: Chris Steelman]
Chris Steelman Offline

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Lunker

Registered: 02/26/06
Posts: 1840
Loc: Red River County,Tx
There has been a change of plans.

This weekend I helped one of our family friends with his ponds. He has three ponds that he would like to manage.

One pond will be catfish. We seined this pond and caught crappie bluegill and bass. I originally recommend he kill off the pond but he liked the crappie so we are going to go ahead and stock catfish.

The next one will be big bluegill. We are going to drain this pond and repair the pipe that is going through the dam and then stock with male bluegill.

The largest pond will be large bass. The bass are currently stunted. He took 100 last year and I told him to take at least that much this year. The pond also has 3 feet+ of visibility so we are going to fertilize it.

After we were done for the day he asked me what he owed me and I said a pond. He is going to use our dozer to build 1/4-1/2 acre pond. We looked at the site today and put up stakes for the dam. It will have about a 5-6 foot dam and will excavate out the rest to get 10-12 feet of depth. I am going to check on pipe and antiseep collars this week and start clearing the site this weekend. I will make sure and get some pictures this weekend when we are done clearing.

The pond will be 200 yards northwest of point A.



Edited by Chris Steelman (03/23/08 09:05 PM)

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#112570 - 03/23/08 09:42 PM Re: Pond #1 [Re: Chris Steelman]
ewest Offline
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Registered: 03/08/05
Posts: 19744
Loc: Miss.
That is a great deal Chris. Just keep in mind if its up stream of the other ponds that migration may occur.
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