Pond Boss Forums STOCKING A NEW POND Types of fish to choose managing for trophy GSF

GW, excellent post. my only comments (to points quoted above) are that both the ranch pond and my pond have limited submerged cover. in the ranch pond this works to keep GSF density low due to lmb predation, those that survive grow huge. in my pond, it serves to leave the mosquito fish and all other lepomis fry and YOY open to GSF predation. we'll see if this continues to work in the longer term as increasing numbers of GSF YOY will survive predation and mature to adults thereby using up more carrying capacity....this is what i am watching as closely as i can.

my theory on rampant BG spawning is that the BG population is controlled by drastic summer drawdown and predation by mosquito fish on fry and by adult fish (mostly GSF) on YOY....this is another "we'll see" what happens this next breeding season, but so far it appears to be working.

i think my current population of adult GSF have ample forage due to the reasons expressed above.

Bill, to my knowledge, HSB are illegal in CA. they are certainly not available through any suppliers i have found which arent many. i would love to try them though.

catfish are out of the question. the rancher does not want them in his pond, and our ponds are connected in a way that i have no control over some fish escaping downstream. although i love catching and eating catfish, i dont want them in my pond anyway for a number of reasons.

i should be getting high speed internet in the next week or so (do i hear some of you clapping??) after which i will tie in some previous (relevant) threads. i appreciate your invitation to write an article, but i think we need to evaluate one more breeding season before i would call this experiment any kind of success.......an article on failure might be as valuable if not more than one on success.

That's terrific.

The journey on GSF pond will be worth the writing no matter the results. I can guarantee you that we will all learn something new.

thanks ewest. i went out to try my luck this evening....calm conditions, air temp in low 40's, creek rushing into pond, slight clearing of turbidity.....i cast out my offering (cheap fly w/ worm chunk on barbless hook) and nailed either a BG or GSF on just about every cast.....it was a blast. i caught over 30 fish in less than an hour. no lunkers, they are still hunkering down......but of the fish caught, the BG show great growth, average length 7-8-inches w/ fat stomachs, and GSF a couple different year classes ranging from 5 to 8-inhces all with fat bellies.

the gsf cooperate much better than the BG by ALWAYS taking the fly in the corner of the mouth, as most of you know already, the BG tend to inhale stuff, the trick is to set the hook quickly but gently or they take it deep. i managed to avoid any deep BG hooksets this afternoon.

hopefully it'l be easy to tell female from male BG come this spring and i can begin culling some of the females, i think that will only help matters.

I am curious about the mosquito fish you are talking about. Is that the actual name of the fish or is there another? I can't seem to find them mentioned on any of the fish stocking websites here in Texas.

genus is "gambusia". they are livebearers (like guppys). as ewest (and others) can tell you there are many different species. i THINK mine are "affinis" but I am not sure. they are very aggressive, breed prolifically, probably help control my young sunfish population, and provide forage for larger sunfish.....as i see it, they can do no wrong with the exception of wiping out rare indigeneous small fish species in waters in which they've been introduced.

Great update Dave. And before anyone accuses me, it warnt me that Dave loaned his fancy testing equipment to when it got broke. Dave is too smart as to entrust me with high tech sensitive equipment.

Oh and it's about time with the internet connection, finally you can put down the can and string.

Dave: I will see if I can find mosquito fish like that in this area. I really have had my interest peaked by your experience with your sunfish. I am currently still in the planning stages for my 1 1/2 acre pond and am considering trying to recreate your success. Considering I only use ultra-light equipment and 4lb test line, a 1 - 1 1/2 pound sunfish would be a real hoot. I appreciate your insight.

thanks for the kind words ezylman. you shouldnt have too hard a time finding a source for gambusia, they probably occur naturally in waters near you although my knowledge of TX geography is really bad....i believe there are some really rare indigenous species in TX, it would be fun to try and get some of those.

personally, i get as much enjoyment if not more out of catching fat sunfish on ultralight tackle as large bass or trout on heavier equipment....particularly when the sunfish come out of my front yard those of us w/ ponds are lucky people, but we do work for it.

ezylman,
I live near Montgomery, and had Gambusia show up on their own with-in a few months of impounding water in a new pond. i guess the birds brought them in. They are prolific, stay in the shallows, and held add to the forage base.

If you can not find any, give me a call and you can have as many as you can net from my ponds.

ezylman, jhap has some good advice on how to transfer and release gambusia.....

http://www.pondboss.com/forums/ubbthread...=true#Post89248

Mike: I appreciate the offer. I may get back in touch with you and take you up on it when the time comes. My wife says no pond if it is going to be a mosquito breeding ground. I honestly don't know how she could tell though. We are already surrounded by 18 acres of timber...

Dave: I appreciate all the info and insight. Keep it coming if you think of anything else.

ezylman, tell her dont worry about skeeters. The frogs eat them, who are eaten by snakes, who are eaten by gators, who are eaten....you get the picture. Or, may be best to tell her if she lets you buy an aerator the water will stay in motion, not condusive to mosquito breeding.

Ponds with fish just don't have mosquito problems. The larvae (wiggletails) are pretty far down on the food chain and every small fish and bug mops up on them.

The skeeter problem comes from low areas that temporarily hold water and high grasses around wet areas. Ponds actually seem to lower the mosquito population.

I don't ever remember a mosquito problem when fishing the ponds.

More like how not to release them.... I'm forever scarred.

On a more postive note though last year we saw clouds of Gam fry merrily swimming in the pond - those little guys reproduce at a rate that make rabbits look like whimps!

Good point Dave. Plus I was told Skeeters don't fly worth a darn so if there is much of a breeze (like around open water) they will head for cover. That theory seems to hold true around my place - around the pond ~ no problemo ~ get in an amongst the trees or and it's JHAP buffet for the Skeeters.

here's something to shoot for:

CA Inland Water Angling Record:
Green sunfish - 1 lb 12 oz, Farm pond near Bella Vista, Shasta
County, 6/3/1978

this one was just a hair under 1.25 lbs (per boga)



this coming spring's fishing should be interesting in el dorado.

Just the fact that you've gotten that close already is really remarkable. Seriously.

I remember this thread!



Did he say WARMOUTH!?!?

i cant wait to see how they do for you GW.

regarding GSF as top predator, i wondered...if it fails in my pond, would striped bass (SB) (not HSB, but regular SB) be a viable top predator for my situation here:

http://www.pondboss.com/forums/ubbthread...c61de0269ad2e40

re-iterating, i think 2008 will be a true test season (second breeding season) to really find out if the GSF can be successful as top predator (given my pond conditions) or if the BG will overpopulate and stunt.....if unsuccessful, other methods will need to be implemented.

DIED it has worked already it appears. Fish down and seine the BG numbers as needed. The real key to watch for is GSF recruitment.

GW good to see you active. My guess is the WM will work much like DIED's GSF.

thanks eric, it seems to have worked thus far, and GSF recruitment does not yet seem to be an issue, but out of the 1500 plus BG i stocked in early 07, this will be the season for many more to come on-line for spawning. i predict the later summer forage base to be off the hook.

seining.....isnt that like work? wouldnt it be easier to put in some predators?..just kidding...sort of...

i acutally have an opportunity to help my neighbor (downstream ranch pond) by giving him female BG culls from my pond for an additional lmb forage boost....the deal is he'll (hopefully) let me fish it more to cull slot bass and increase my chances for a double digit hook-up

That is a great photo of your GSF Dave. It's probably almost as big as the one that "got away" when I was fishing at your place.

Jeez, 1lb 12oz would be a huge GSF. What a fun fight that would be on a light tackle or fly fishing rig.

I really look forward to seeing how your pond does this year. Like you said with a second year of spawing you should not have any forage issues. Once you figure out the management formula you are gonna have some monster GSF. When you get rich and famous just don't forget your old friend JHAP.

Oh and seining ain't so bad. The best way is to wait for a really warm July day, put on some swim trunks, stock a cooler with some adult beverages and get er done. I'd gladly come over to help.