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#104020 12/28/07 11:40 PM
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I am working on fish cage designs with AP Outdoors. They are a manufacturing company that makes a variety of outdoor products. I really like their Lunker Lodge and am in the process of designing various other fish cages with them for pond owners. Looking for ideas/designs to make the perfect pond cages, that can be reasonably shipped nationwide. If anyone, Pond Boss included, is interested in creating their own line of these cages with their names on them, let me know. NO MONEY to be invested, just engineering/designs/ideas/experience is what we are looking for.

I have tried many fish cages, including my own, and just am not happy with what is available and how long they last for. I want them to look good and last a long time.

Also cannot keep up with the demand for fish cages in my area. I dont have time or proper resources to make cages.

Moderator if this post is not appropriate, please remove or edit it.


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I don't see any problem with the post. I do, however, think it would be a great idea to PM a couple of the regular forum members who have tons of experience with this sort of thing to get their immediate input.

Cody and Baird come to mind.


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Please send any ideas that you wish directly to Nate by email or PM and make any arrangements (patent rights , naming rights or royalties etc)there also. Good luck Nate !! I bet this group has some ideas. I have one I will send. Nate check for a PM.

Last edited by ewest; 12/29/07 08:39 AM.















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There might be an article coming up in Pond Boss on growing out largemouth bass in a cage. A little birdie told me so. Not definite though.

Bill Cody is our resident expert on cages. He has more experience than I, and has taught me all I know about raising fish in cages. Hell he's taught me just about everything! I would definitely P.M. him.

That said, if you guys want a good chuckle Bill and I are at friendly odds on which design is better; a square or rectangular cage which I prefer, or a round one which Bill prefers. He sent me a pic of his latest round prototype and I asked him if why he was raising fish in a garbage can. \:D He was not a happy camper. \:D I tried to smooth things over by saying my square cages were more like dumpsters and he calmed down a little. \:D Then I tried to blame it on the wife's waste basket in her office as Bill's cage must have reminded me of that wastebasket. \:D

Here's his latest cage. Tell me if it doesn't resemble my wife's waste basket in the office below. BTW Bill this is all in fun. So give it your best shot back at me! \:D





Oh here's one of my giant 10 by 10 foot dumpster designs. \:D



Last edited by Cecil Baird1; 12/29/07 09:52 AM.

If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.






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I think I notice a resemblance, Cecil. Your fish pen, OTOH, looks like it ought to have Wilson or Spaulding or whatever Tom Hanks called his volleyball attached to one corner. ;\)


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 Originally Posted By: Theo Gallus
I think I notice a resemblance, Cecil. Your fish pen, OTOH, looks like it ought to have Wilson or Spaulding or whatever Tom Hanks called his volleyball attached to one corner. ;\)


That bad huh? \:\( \:D


If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.






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See guys what I have to put up with by trying to teach this "Baird guy" (aka a Dr Perca wanabe and sometimes as Heron Harasser) a few fishery things.

Is n8ly talking about fish cages or fish live boxes?. How many designs of fish raising cages can there be? The two basic cage designs for raising fish are cylindrical and cubical/boxy (Baird style). I'm not sure where the engineering comes in with this simple concept. Build it out of the correct materials and it will last many years. UV light is the most damaging foe of fish cages. I thought I covered this pretty well in my 3 articles in Pond Boss mag. Where were the articles deficient? I or someone else can write a 4th cage up date article. Has n8ly seen the articles in PB?

PS. CB1's wife's waste basket would not last long in the office at my place. I would use it to train small fingerlings to eat fish food. Perfect item for crowding and feed training several hundred 1/2"-3/4" fry.

Last edited by Bill Cody; 12/29/07 04:15 PM.

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I am talking about fish cages, live boxes, holding pens, bait boxes, etc. Pretty much anything that a pond owner might need for various applications. Many pond owners dont have the time, desire, or capability to make their own cages. And also they want them to look nice too, (no offense CB1, your dumpster cage is beautiful to me)

Bill, I have religiously read every article in pond boss for the last 2 years, and also have many issues from years past. I have learned a ton about raising fish in cages.

We are looking for designs and ideas to create a line of cages and holding pens that can be easily packaged, shipped, and assembled. Check out the lunker lodge to see what they have come up with so far for a holding pen.

ewest just sent over an AWESOME cage design. I would encourage him to share his idea. It is exactly the kind of design we are looking for.


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N8tely, et al. With regard to design, as an old mechanical engineer I can get excited about these sort of questions! Fun thing to think about...

Have you identified the design goals beyond, I assume, cost of materials? Even with the rise in raw polymer materials this thing could be built pretty cheap. Is anybody going to try and make a bit of money with this?

1) Functionality. This is likely where Cecil's and Bill's designs speak to durability, size, accessability, etc.

2) Transportability. Size & weight. Clearly a collapsible design would be in everybody's interest. But then you have to design for...

3) Ease of assembly. The tie wraps used in both Cecil's and Bill's designs are relatively cumbersome, take a bit of time to assemble, and discourage quick break down during the off season. If you're designing the system, could a series of lightweight pins be used at the joints? Better yet, how about a snap system - as used in some children's lego-type toys where joints come together? I recently bought an outdoor shed made of synthetic polymer material and the whole thing just snapped together. No screws, bolts, etc. This also reduces part count.

4) Modularity. From Cecil's and Bill's discussion this is not a one-size-fits-all problem. But you'd like a one-size-fits-all solution, at least as much as possible. You should accommodate depth, length, width, size of mesh, etc. So could you build a simple 2x2' or 4x4' design that could be configured to any other compounded size?

5) Last, can it be accessorized! And that's where you make the money. I'm sorta joking here, but not much. Temp probes and displays. Lights. Easy access panels. Cameras. Whatever. Since I'm relatively new to this forum, I won't name the specific people that will buy this stuff... But you guys know who you are ;\)

Fun concept! If you describe the above to any of the manufacturing shops, I bet they'll have in-house people that could come up with some great concepts.

As for the material, I wonder if there is any option for algae-resistance. And is there a concern about adverse leeching of chemicals from any of the available materials?

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NE M - Some good points in your message. Thanks for the ideas. I have a couple comments.
2. Collapsible design could be tricky. When one starts bending and folding the durable plastic netting, it tends to stay creased. This is not a problem if the cage remains together. But folding does tend to cause gaps in some instances at seams where fish can get out, esp if wire ties were use to affix seams. My first cage was a commerical collapsible design and it is not used anymore due to creases in netting. Creases want to cause folds in cage walls and misshapen cages. Fish cages are best if netting / walls stays flat and straight.

3. quick break down during the off season. If storage space is a problem, why not leave the cage together and leave it in the pond empty? It will then act as refuge areas for fish small enough to get inside the mesh.


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NE M - In order to have no cost up front on the project, AP Outdoors would ultimately retain the rights to the products, BUT we would name them "Pond Boss Cages" (if pond boss likes the ideas) Then Pond Boss could advertise the cages and sell them online, or through the mag and AP would ship them directly to the customer. Advantages would be no cost at all to PB, no inventory to deal with, and more PB name recognition nationwide.

Other PB members (aquatic service providers, etc) could become dealers of the cages too, and sell them also.

The other option would be to come up with funding to pay for the engineering etc of the cages and then that party would have exclusive rights, patents, etc to the products. In the long run that would be the best option if the products are good, but then there is risk involved.


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n8ly,

Have you determined if there is enough demand for these cages to make this project worthwhile? You do know they are sold by other companies right?

I have my doubts if there is enough demand for a ready made product since it's fairly easy to build them yourself.


If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.






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I know they are sold by other companies, but they can definitely be made and marketed better. I have gotten some great ideas, I just posted them, but the post didnt go through, and I for some reason did not save it


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I came to Pond Boss for help with this project because I knew that is how the very best product would be made. You just cannot beat the combination of diversity, knowledge, and experience. We will make the very best cages in the U.S.
Even Cecil and Bill will free up a few of their saturdays in the coming years because they couldn't afford to NOT purchase the best looking, working, fish raising holding keeping machines. (I would put a little emoticon here, but cant switch to full reply screen)

Please keep the awesome ideas coming!


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I have to side with Bill on the round design vs, rectangular or square. Basing this strictly on cattle and horse pen design and elimination of "cornering" by dominant animals, this design lessens this effect in close confinement.
As far as a cage design, having a design that collapsed in on itself for shipping, using a chain link type cage material, would make shipping more convenient. Once in service, the cage would unfold into full length.


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Putting together bits from here and there, here is some ideas so far:

Cages would consist of panels made from plastic netting. The panels could be lined with a rubber coated galvanized wire (ideas???) Then we need to think of a good way to link the panels together to create the cage (ideas???)

A few standard size panels (4'x4', 2x3, etc) and mesh sizes (1/4", 1/2", 1" etc) could be made for various applications and cage sizes. Even with the possibility of linking panels together to create somewhat of a circular cage instead of square or rectangle. Just would take a circular top and bottom panel.

Advantages of having panels would be obvious for shipping, but also the plastic netting wouldn't be folded, creased, etc. ALSO if a panel does get damaged over time, it could easily be replaced. Basically the cage should last forever?

Accessories could be dock attachments, floats, feed rings, and even an automatic fish feeder could be designed. It should be something very simple that just has to drop food in the cage (ideas???)

Still looking for more ideas and improvements.

As far as the market for these cages, I think that in the next few years, the demand for all pond products and supplies is going to be HUGE! Pond owners are a few years behind land owners(especially deer people) in management and maximizing resources, but they are catching up fast.

In illinois MOST pond owners and waterfront property owners do not have any fish cages at all. Unlike PB members, they do not know these products exist and especially dont know where to get them or how to make them. This may be hard to believe, but most pond owners in Illinois do not even know that Pond Boss exists!

Bait cages (super convenient), holding pens (for cleaning at a convenient time), cages to raise fish for stocking, and cages to raise fish for eating are becoming very popular products that pond owners across illinois and Im sure nationwide are going to utilize for ultimate enjoyment of their pond.

How many Pond Boss members have fish cages of some sort already?
If you dont, I bet you have plans for a fish cage or holding pen in the future. They are just too fun and convenient to not experiment with.


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Brilliant idea with the feeder option!!

Even something that only held 8 ounces of pellets would be extremely beneficial for somebody who's away from the cages for a couple days at a time.

Aquatic Ecosystems makes a demand feeder with a little thingie that the fish nudges to dispense food. If I recall, they were pretty inexpensive.

Very, very interesting.


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 Originally Posted By: M Spinhirne
I have to side with Bill on the round design vs, rectangular or square. Basing this strictly on cattle and horse pen design and elimination of "cornering" by dominant animals, this design lessens this effect in close confinement.


WHAT! \:D


If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.






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Elimination of "cornering" is why the cylindrical cage is often preferred. Over the full spectrum of fish species that can be raised in cages, cornering is less of a problem in cylindrical cages. Fish bunching up in corners tends to be stressful. It is important to reduce stress esp when fish are in crowded conditions.

The coated wire material was used a lot in early cage designs before plastic mesh was widely available. Wires coated and uncoated had too many problems compared to the more durable and easy to work with plastic mesh material. Thus plastic mesh is now used almost exclusively by the industry.

Last edited by Bill Cody; 12/31/07 10:07 PM.

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Well Bill you have me convinced. My next one is going to be a circular one. I would think I should be able to use a water line to make the hoops right? I want one that has a 7 foot diameter. How easy is it to clean the ciruclar ones vs. the square ones I use?


If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.






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Cecil,
Not so fast. I'm not so sure that in your application of large cages that the cylinder is best. Rectangle may be best for large cages. The PVC frame helps provide support and rigidity. I think if one built a large cylinder it should have hoops on the top and bottom plus it would need side vertical ribs as in some of my cages in the PB articles. My smaller cylinder cages only have one hoop at the top. Side vertical ribs will hold the mesh in place while cleaning / brushing. Ribs would also help the cage stand upright without sagging out of the water.

Yes frequently the cylinder cages are made using hoops made from black poly pipe. If you want a stronger hoop you could do as I showed in my first Cage article of building an octagon with PVC and 45 degree elbows. Cost would be more than blk poly pipe.


Last edited by Bill Cody; 12/31/07 10:27 PM.

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Good points Bill but I would definitely have used a bottom hoop also. Forgot about the octogon design. I guess I shouldn't have given all my back issues away with hopes of getting new subscribers. \:D

Actually the concept is simple. I think I will make an octagon. All I need are T's for top and bottom.

Last edited by Cecil Baird1; 01/01/08 09:59 AM.

If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.






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Any more ideas out there? I will be talking with the manufacturer on tuesday, jan 8th.


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 Originally Posted By: n8ly
Any more ideas out there? I will be talking with the manufacturer on tuesday, jan 8th.


If you're going with something that utilizes a PVC frame I would not necessarily include the PVC unless they are joints that are hard to find locally such as three cornered joints for square and rectangular cages.

It's easy enough to buy the PVC and joints locally and follow directions.

I also don't glue my joints. They fit snugly enough by tapping them together with a rubber mallet and once the cage material is attached it seems to hold the cage together. Not gluing them could allow one to pull the joints apart and make them more easily stored. Cody says if the joints are not glued the cage could easily be rebuilt if necessary.

Last edited by Bill Cody; 01/05/08 02:25 PM.

If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.






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Make sure to check out Cecil's article in the new Pond Boss magazine.

Pretty cool, and nice pictures too.


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