Pond Boss Forums MANAGING AN EXISTING POND Evaluating and adjusting fish populations Ruh Roh.... bass overpopulated?

I'm a new poster to PB. My first post in regard to my pond is here: http://www.pondboss.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=9391&Number=98686

Anyway, I closed on the property (with 11-12 acre lake) last week, so I decided to go fishing on the pond/lake this last weekend.

On Friday, my wife and I started out with nightcrawlers and caught about 15 very large BG (not a single one smaller than 8 inches) within about an hour. We also caught 9 LMB all 14-16" and a 3 lb CC.

I returned Saturday afternoon and camped out overnight Sat night. Wow! It was cold! Woke up to a nice sheet of frost on everything Sunday morning.

From Saturday through Sunday I and 4 others caught 250+ (no kidding!) 14-16" LMB using spinner baits baited with pork frogs. My 12 year old nephew went 5 for 5 at one point (5 casts, 5 LMB), and another friend went 4 for 4. We also caught about 10 more very large BG using nightcrawlers for maybe 30 min. We caught NO LMB smaller than 14" and only ONE outside of the 14-16" slot. It was a pig and weighed about 3 1/2 to 4 pounds with perfect conformation.

Great fishing (lots of action), but it appears the bass may be overpopulated. We caught about 50-60 with the big head, little body issue and many more that were skinny but not as extreme. However, the bulk of the LMB (150 or so) seemed properly proportioned and healthy. The group of 50-60 that were really bad had heads the size of the 3 1/2 to 4 pounder I caught but were only about 15" and had tiny sunken bellies and couldn't have weighed more than a pound and a half. We released all of the fish as this was just a trial run for the lake. We were just trying to get a feel for what was in it.

The first thing that I thought was that there must be a forage shortage, but walking the shore I saw huge amounts of small BG and LMB fry around the entire shoreline of the pond.

So, do you think that these stunted LMB are the product of a forage shortage several years ago rather than a current forage shortage? My thought is that perhaps the LMB I caught that were properly "shaped" were much younger fish and have not had to deal with a forage shortage in their younger lives so have grown properly while the stunted fellas are much older and have simply become permanently stunted. However, I have never had this kind of action with LMB this time of the year here in NW Missouri (usually the bass are pretty docile at this point), so my thought is that they must have been pretty hungry, but why with all the forage fish I saw?

Basically, I'm at a loss, but my gut is that I need to cull all the stunted fish as soon as I can... unfortunately that will likely have to wait until spring as it's getting pretty cold for fishing now. But what else should I be doing?

Thanks for any input! Gotta love PB!

It sounds like you are missing an age/size class of forage. The bass need a meal that is 1/4 to 1/3 of their size to thrive. You've pretty well identified the solution to cull the starving bass. It takes time and work but the forage base just can't keep up with the predation without your help. One of the keys is the ability to catch the bass on every cast. Sounds like a fun problem to have. Remember; it's all about predator/prey balance and water quality.

Right, 'Raggy!

Your current predator/prey balance is great for growing 10" bluegill.

I am curiuos, is there a significant amount of aquatic vegetation present?

You are gonna have a magnificent fishing pond on your hands once you get the predator to prey relationship stabilized. The first time I ever fished on my pond I had the same experience - 4 casts yielded 4 bass - great fun (I used a plastic lizard with a propeller spinner on the front, drove the bass crazy). I camp on my land as well - I bought a travel trailer that I park on my property. Hot in the summer, cold in the winter but I love spending time there.

The experts here could probably help you to devise a culling strategy to reduce the bass population and give the forage base a boost.

So we know you have LMB, BG and CC. Anything else in the pond that you know of?

Thanks for the advice Dave. Yes, it was a blast catching all of those fish, and It'll be fun "work" culling the stunted bass.



Shorty - I've been told by Shawn Banks (member of this forum) that this lake is known to be a trophy BG fishery. He used to work with the previous owner for the MO Dept of Conservation (incidently, the previous owner is a fisheries management biologist there). Judging from my experience from this last weekend, I definately would agree that it's a great BG lake. In terms of vegetation, there is a great deal of chara surrounding the entire shoreline, but it is in a stage that I would call "under control". There are other aquatic plants as well, but they are not "thick" anywhere. The entire northern end of the lake is a sunken forest (stumps and trees everywhere in about 8-12 feet of water). Great bass habitat in that area.




Jeff - Yea, I'm extremely excited! While my only options right now are to camp out there, I intend to build my new home there maybe next summer.

In terms of fish population... BG, LMB, limited CC, possibly some walleye (if they survived after stocking I believe 2 or 3 years ago) and a few huge golden shiners (previous owner said they had soe bait bucket escapees and they're quite large now).

I would like to add a small number of HSB when I feel comfortable there is appropriate forage for them. Also am considering stocking some large sized RES. Would love to stock some BC, but I'm worried about them getting out of hand. Being an avid fisherman I would love to stock just about everything, but I know that's unrealistic and would spell trouble.

Dang I was going to plug Shawn but seems you're already in touch. You need to get him to do an electrofishing survey for you. The information will be a great assest.

Couple of points, you caught the fish so well b/c I would suspect it has been fished little. This lack of preussre results in much easeir to catch fish. Man I wish you would have pulled those ultra skinny ones out, oh well you get to catch them again. Shaun will provide you a good plan of action depending on goals. Thsi should include number and size of bass to harvest.

To clarify the fact your seeing lots of little tiny fish and no middle size bluegill verifies the stunted nautre of the bass and lack of preffered forage. As Dave stated you need to 5 inch bluegill to feed 15 inch bass. They have to use up too much energy chasing hundreds of the little bluegill you saw. Sounds like you are on the right track.

I agree with the above assessments. Here is a guess as to why you are seeing those results.

The pond was managed for large BG which usually means lots of small LMB when managed. It was managed well which kept those symptoms to a minimum and the fish big and healthy. But when the prior owner decided to sell the place the level of interest , thus the management, fell way off. As a result the natural tendency of LMB to out eat their food source became more prevalent and visible. Those LMB with 5 lb heads and 2 lb bodies use to be 5 lbs. They have been on a forced diet. The 2 lb LMB (younger ones) that look healthy are about to start on that same diet absent your intervention. The LMB are not stunted they are starving. Stunted fish by definition do not get big as they never have the chance to get big due to stunting. Left unmanaged for about 2-3 more years you will start to see stunted LMB in the 4-8 in range.

Probably a structure or forage issue, but I would be curious to do an informal autopsy on a couple of those skinny ones. Maybe check the stomach, intentines, and liver for parasites or anything unusual.

Assuming everything is OK, there's nothing wrong with bass that are just a tad on the skinny side if you get a strike on nearly every cast!

Glad you're enjoying the pond. For the past 10 years the pond has been manged for "Kids Fishing" (9,7 and 1 year olds). This past summer we were begining to convert it or at least balance it ( we pulled out about 600 lmb). Weissguy should have mentioned that every 3-4 years I've drawn the pond down to kill vegetation. The fluctuating vegetation levels and reduction in available habitat has given the bass plently of food (every 3-4 years). This is why he is seeing "skinny" 20"+ lmb. I've never noticed anything that would indicate that there is any kind of fish health issue. Even "grubs" are rare. Water quality is awsome. It's one of the few NW Mo lakes that maintain freshwater broyzoan. Weissguy, if you need anymore history of the lake or want help with your bathymetric (I've done most of the public lakes in NW Mo)just stop by the house. I'll trade you a EF survey for a chance to take the kids back to the lake again.