Pond Boss Forums STOCKING A NEW POND Types of fish to choose brand new hole in the ground

I have a problem. There is a construction company removing 600,000 cubic yards of sand/gravel from my back yard. This hole is about half done, it will be finished by this fall (2003).
I don't have any figures on the acreage, but it may be 10+ acres when done. I do know that it is ground water fed, and already 12' deep. I don't expect it to get much deeper because they have reached the bottom of the sand. The surrounding banks will be contoured to restrict field run off, but it may be tiled into. This is all located in southern minnesota.
My uncles want walleyes of course, Im not so sure, I realize thier are serious trade offs. I don't think anyone wants to invest in continued restocking. If walleyes were the only top predator (no bass) could a self sustaining fishery be set up? How much rip rap would it take? What kind of forage? I already know what walleye need for spawning, I just don't know how much. If this isn't possible what are some better options? Is Bass/Bgill the only option? If I missed some details, please tell me, I will supply all the facts I know, but the pond is not yet finished.

Do a search on this site and you should find some useful information. I haven't paid much attention to information on stocking walleyes in ponds but here's what I *think* I've read, which may be wrong...

You can stock and manage walleye in a pond, and the bigger the pond the more success you're probably going to have.

Yellow perch go well with walleye as a forage base. If the pond doesn't contain a lot of rip rap and/or sand then they will not have a very good chance of spawning successfuly. This could be a plus or a minus depending on how you look at it. By not providing ideal spawning habitat you can stock certain numbers and then be more confident in managing them via harvest and record keeping.

Beyond that, I can't say how well it will do with other fish such as bluegill and bass, though I'm betting you could stock bass in lower numbers than the recommended 100 per acre to help maintain a predator/prey relationship. Also, from what I've read you'd be doing yourself a big favor by stocking fathead minnows in the spring before stocking other fish. Allow them to breed like crazy until late summer and then stock your other fish. Check into the viability of stocking golden shiners along with the fatheads. When they grow big they'll be great forage for the larger walleyes. Stocking crayfish might also be helpful as walleye seem to love them.

Hope this helps but confirm it with the experts.

Good morning TyW33. Critterhunter gave you some good advice, and I think I can add a little more.

I'm about 3 hours west of Mankato on Highway 14, so we should have some similarities.

I'm going to discourage you just a little on walleyes. Primarily, I very much doubt that you'll get reproduction in a 10-acre pond. Even if you get a little, it's almost certain that it will not be enough to maintain the population. If you want walleyes, and EVERYONE is walleye crazy up here, then you'll have to stock.

We're managing a couple of 20-acre ponds near Brookings that are walleye-yellow perch combinations. We have to maintain the walleyes by stocking (the perch take care of themselves). If I see even one or two age-0 walleyes (naturally produced) in the fall electrofishing survey, that is about the peak. Most years, we see no survival of naturally reproduced walleyes.

When we did the first pond, I was scared to death that the yellow perch would overpopulate and stunt. So, we stocked too many walleyes too often, and their growth was very slow. However, we produced 12-13 inch yellow perch as a result!

On the second pond, we're stocking fewer fish, and letting a commercial fish dealer from the area harvest some of the smaller walleyes. We've been able to get faster growth as a result, and the perch are still under control (9-10 inches long after 3 years).

You do have a couple of other management options for your pond. Yes, you can use the tried and true largemouth bass-bluegill combination. It works just fine up here. You'll be able to produce 8 and 9 inch bluegills for the table, if you so desire. Also, the largemouth bass-yellow perch combination works very well up here.

The other option you might consider is smallmouth bass. If you want a FUN pond fish, you can't beat them. Man, they are fighters and jumpers. We use smallmouths in quite a few of our ponds. The primary problem is that they are not as effective a predator as largemouth bass, and I would STRONGLY discourage putting a panfish (say bluegill or yellow perch) into the pond. The panfish will overpopulate and stunt, in nearly all cases. Also, the smallies themselves tend to overpopulate and stunt. So, after a few years, you will need to harvest a lot of small bass (say those under 12 inches) each year, to keep up growth rates and make sure there are plenty of 15-18 inch smallmouths for catch and release.

I am a little worried about your pond depth. Maybe MN is "better" than SD, but 12 ft depth is pretty marginal around here. You mentioned a sand layer -- does that mean that you are down in the ground water table? If so, you may be OK on depth. Our gravel pits around here make it through the winter with as little as 8-10 ft of water. A "hill pond" (a dam pushed up on a draw, holding water behind it, and relying on runoff to fill it) should be a lot deeper in eastern SD. Even 20 ft is not too much, as that will be lower in drought years.

Well, that should give you a little food for thought. Let me know if it brings up any other questions.

Dave

Thanks very much for the advice. Yes, it is into the water table, when I checked its depth this winter it was 11 to 12 in the middle, and rising. You could see rings around the shore where the ice was diffrent thicknesses.
I suspected that walleye wouldn't spawn in that size pond, I have asked a few of my proffesors about it. I will be doing some water testing this spring to get a base line for fertility.
I like the idea of smallies, but don't like the idea of not having bgill. I love smallies, last spring I caught a 19" and 20" in the BWCAW, im addicted. Its a trade off.
Then my next question would be, Where to get them? I tried to find a private hatchery in my area but couldn't find anything with in three hours. So I have no idea where to get any fish. Any tips on this would be greatly appreciated.

Mike Robinson Keystone Hatcheries 815-678-2537 from IL, or John Chalmers 10,000 Lakes from MN 320-859-5743 are both great for fish.

Thanks, I really appreciate everyones help and comments. I have been researching this project for about a year, and this is the most useful and crediable information I have found so far. Thank you, and thanks to the Boss for setting it all up!

The March-April issue of Pond Boss has a 4 page article on walleye by Bill Cody.

TyW33 -- it looks like Robert B set you up with a couple of fish suppliers. I suspect he probably provided you names of reputable folks, who would also have some management experience/advice.

Most state conservation agencies maintain a list of private fish growers. For example, SD Game, Fish and Parks annually updates a list of commercial fish growers for our state.

I wonder if the MN DNR has such a list as well?? Is there any type of area DNR office in Mankato? If not, perhaps a phone call to the fisheries division office in St. Paul?

Minnesota has a pretty big private fish culture industry. I tried to search on the web for some type of home page for the group, but didn't find one after about 5 minutes of searching. You might do the same if the phone call to the DNR doesn't help? I found a lot of information for the MN Sea Grant program, which does work quite a bit in aquaculture.

Dave

I have used google and yellowpages.com to look for hatcheries. The closest one I remeber was three hours away. 10,000 lakes is in northern MN near alexandria, almost four hours from me. I don't know how far they can deliver fish but I will call them on monday. I will also try to get a list from the DNR. Any other recomendations are appreciated, thanks.

TyW -- we have a local supplier in Brookings, which, if you are indeed in Mankato, would be within 3 hours or so. His name is Mark Fronig (605-693-3715). We do quite a bit of work with him. All of these guys can deliver -- it's just a matter of the cost per mile. Maybe you can call several and do some comparison shopping?

Dave

Thank you I will.

Assuming that we will stock LMB and Bgill, What other forage fish are an option in southern MN? fatheads for sure, what about shiners/ golden shiners? will they compete with the gills? Will thier be any benifit to the bass?
And when can I stock them? They haven't started digging again, but will soon, and I don't know when they will be done. If I added fatheads this spring/summer would they survive they turbidity? Also I don't think there is any weed growth. should I wait untill next spring and stock bass in June?

TyW – several questions here. Let me see if I can help with some of this.

Assuming that you go with LMB and BLG, you certainly can add fathead minnows the same time as you stock the LMB. The fatheads will spawn several times throughout that first summer, and will provide good prey for the LMB. Fatheads are tough little fish, and can survive turbidity. However, I would not stock them until I stocked the LMB, because if the fatheads have a year to expand and fill the pond, they’ll decimate the zooplankton and insects that the little LMB will need to get started.

You can expect the fatheads to disappear within a couple of years in your pond – the LMB are just too effective predators for the fatheads to persist much longer than that.

You can add golden shiners as well. They will not hurt the bluegills. In many cases, we just haven’t been able to get the golden shiners to persist with reasonable LMB densities. So, no reason to worry about them reaching such a high abundance that they would hurt the bluegills. Introducing some early should let them have a chance, but I can’t guarantee that they’ll be there several years from now. The general belief on golden shiners is that they have to have a reasonable amount of refuge in the form of the submergent aquatic vegetation. If you pond has any clarity at all, those plants will grow.

I’m not sure what to tell you about stocking. I’m always tempted to stock fish as soon as possible just because I am impatient, and want to get started. How much trees, brush, and grasses will be flooded in your new pond? Sometimes, we get a winterkill the first winter because all this organic material is decomposing, and the bacteria use all of the dissolved oxygen. If you aren’t afraid of winterkill, and you don’t have a lot of clay in your soils, then I would expect your water to clear up quickly after they finish construction, and I would be impatient and stock! Maybe some of the people who manage ponds for a living will comment, and we’ll see if they agree with me.

Dave

Right now there is NO organic in the pond. The top of the pond is 20 feet below the previous surface. Thier might be a little algae and some frogs but no grasses or trees. Are thier other fish, that don't compete with bgill or bass than can be stocked as forage? I want to research all my options. thanks.

No, TyW, you have our "standard" list of prey fishes. I have no more recommendations for you. I see that you're active on the lake chubsucker issue, so perhaps that will lead somewhere.

The reason that bluegills are considered such a good prey species is their multiple spawning activities through the summer. That way, the small (age 0) LMB have appropriate-size (i.e, small) prey throughout that first year of life.

Dave

Thanks, if i turn anything else up I will be sure to share it.

Well first I would like to say thank you to all of the people who gave feedback and advice on my crazy ideas.

Second I would like to announce that our lake is done. I don't know exactly what the final acerage is but I do know that almost 1,000,000 yards of gravel were removed from the pit. Also I know that the deepest hole is 22' deep. We think the lake is between 10 and 15 acres, conservatively.

The pond is going to be used by Oswald Fishieries (http://www.oswaldsfisheries.com/Default.asp) for holding and raising walleye broodstock. The lake currently has some bluegills and crappie, as well as 1,000 10"-12" walleye. Earlier this winter we also got 125gal of fatheads for feeding the walleyes, that should last them untill June. I believe the final plan calls for 1,500 walleyes.

Also the lake is registered as an aquaculture facility so we have no limits, seasons or regulations. So that is nice. I am hoping to have 18" walleye by this time next year. Now all I need is an ice house.

ty

Found out how big the pond is. Turns out my guess was a little too conservative. It officialy measures 21 acres. Wich is 6 more than I had hoped for.
ty

Ty, Please keep us informed about the growth rates for the walleye.

I second Bill's request. With a lake that size you will have your plate full (work and fish) and boy will it be fun !!

Wow, what a great story! The documented time-line is fascinating in itself. This is a perfect example of what and how this forum has grown to become a premier "go-to" source for pond info. To see Dr Dave in action some 3 years ago and still pumpin' it out today is inspirational; to link it to a specific project as this is historical evidence of his commitment and zeal. TyW33 is no less a participant; witness member #477 and maintenance of life on a thread that is 3 years old, yet only an infant in information. Congrats and thank you.

Ty, it's good to hear from you again. What have you been up to all this time? Did you get your degree yet?

Dave Willis, are gravel pits one of those places where fertilizing might make sense?

I have been around. School and work are keeping me busy, as well as my fiance.
I am in my last semester at UMD, and will graduate this spring with a major in Biology and minors in Limnology and Chemistry. I am hoping to go straight into fisheries with the MN DNR.

I think the walleyes that were stocked are 12"-14" (two year old fish), I think they are "suppossed" to be 16"-18" at 3 years. But we shall see, I might try to age some this spring just to see if they are 2 years old, and maybe run some RWs on them to make sure they are well fed.

We are not planning of feratlizing because the walleye are going to be fed minnows as needed. The main forage base will be continued stocking of fatheads. So there is no need to fertalize the pond to maintain a large forage base. Actauly I am worried that feeding walleyes so many fatheads could actualy over fertalize the pond.

Also we are planning on dumping in as many x-mas trees as possible next January. So I will make sure to post pics of our cribs.

ty

We went fishing in our lake last weekend. It was a good time. The walleyes were bitting, but still small. I caught a dozen in a couple hours on a rattilin rap (#5). There are about 1500 - 1600, 12" walleye in the pond.
We also have some big BG in the pond. I am not sure exactly how many were stocked, maybe a couple hundred. The ones we caught were 10"+. One was caught on a #2 countdown rap.
So far it is all catch and release, for all species.
How long will it be untill we can start keeping BG? and how many will we be able to keep per year?

Does anyone have any tips on how best I can maintain quality size fish? I am very excited about having 10" - 12" bg in our pond, but am unsure how to preserve the quality size fish, especialy with so many walleyes? Can I count on good BG reproduction.

thanks for any tips,
ty

Here's one suggestion: Keep the upright two legged predators out!