Pond Boss Forums STOCKING A NEW POND Types of fish to choose Types Of Fish To NEVER Stock

Thought i'd be fun to dicsuss types of fish to NEVER stock and reasons why in a "smaller" pond of 10 acres or less. Here's my list:

Carp (Obvious reasons), Flathead Catfish (Eats everything in sight), Bluecats (Same reason as flatheads but to a lessor degree), Green Sunfish (Stays small and overpopulates), Bullhead Catfish (Breeds in any old mud so they overpopulate and steal bait when you are trying to catch channel cats), Nothern Pike (Like a living chainsaw on fish populations), Suckers (Just call them carp), Hybrid Sunfish (Reverts back to green sunfish), Pumpkinseed Sunfish (Stays small, overpopulates)

Would be interested in hearing what fish you guys DON'T want in a pond and for what reasons.

Never is a strong word!

Pumpkinseeds can be beneficial in controlling snails that serve as a host for certain grub parasites, plus they can get to a decent size in lakes around our area.

Northern Pike generally eat the size fish you want to catch, and can cause serious imbalances in ponds. However, we have successfully used Northern Pike to correct stunted bass populations in large ponds and lakes.

If a Hybrid Bluegill (aka Hybrid Sunfish) pond is managed correctly they should never revert to Green Sunfish. The pond needs to have a good Bass population to consume the sunfish fry, and because the hybrids are mostly males there is not a lot of fry produced. This type of pond is not for everyone, but a large percentage of our customers with small (less than 2 acres) ponds prefer Hybrid Bluegill.

I have yet to see Green Sunfish produced in a pond stocked with our Hybrid Bluegill. I could see it happening if it were not a pure cross, which can happen on some fish farms. We spawn our hybrids indoors in tanks, so we are 100% sure of the broodstock and a pure Male Bluegill x Female Green Sunfish cross.

I would have to strongly disagree with the word NEVER.
I see nothing wrong with maybe a few Flatheads, maybe some where around 10 to 15 per acre. They are eating machines but everything has it's limit, 10 to 15 fish per acre can't eat the whole an entire pond that is over 2 acres.

Blues are my favorite fish! You certainly can stock these but not as near the rates as channels maybe 50 to 100 per acre.

What are punkinseeds? Are these the same as Red brested sunfish? Don't see such harm in them either.

Lets also talk about what CAN go in ponds. It has to be more than just Bass Blue Gill and Redear....

Lastly I think it might have to do with the size of the pond. For example I would not put hybrid strippers in a pond smaller than 4 acres

Never say never when it comes to fish. Some raise common carp in ponds for food, even specialty food such as gefiltefish, smoked carp etc. All fish have a place in the food chain/ food web but maybe they will not enhance a small pond fishery. We by far, do not know everything there is to know about who always works best where. Different goals require different techniques.

Dave Willis (coauthor) has a new fisheries article in J. Freshwater Ecology (Vol 18,No1,2003) about predatory effects of northern pike and LMB. In the article the authors note the ability of 12" pike to selectively prey on 4" common carp in a larger lake. In another lake carp up to 12" were eaten by pike 24" and larger. Maybe pike can be an effecive carp predator?
I wonder if pike may also help control carp populations in small lakes or larger ponds?

How about stocking a pond with green sunfish, suckers or carp and northern pike? Never say never. Some say suckers have the sweetest meat of all the fishes. They have to have some redeeming value for all those extra bones.

Someday I will put an article in PBoss mag about what 16 Hyb stripers grew into in a 3/4 ac pond. Amazing fish. 24-27" in 5-6 years.

I will say, I never want my mother-in-law in my pond because she doesn't know how to behave & pees in the pool. Smile.

I also feel the need to step in and defend Blue Cats. You say that they are like flatheads but to a lesser extent but from what all the experts here on POND BOSS tell me (see the post "channel and flatheads and blue cats, oh my!" under Feeding) they are more like channel cats and even the few live fish they here and there is kept to a minimum when suplementaly fed pellet feed. Dude, like the man said "never say never"

-Scott

Well.... Blues in the 7 to 10 pound range can be like flatheads. But, that is no reason not to stock them!! Treat them sort of like BASS in a since...They are top of the line predators in a small pond, wheather most admit it or not. I would instead of stocking lets say, 200 Large mouth Bass per acre only make it 100 per acre and 50 blues per acre and make the bream your forage base. I would use the feeder to feed my forage (Bluegill & readear) and let the Blues and Large mouth feed on the bream, although if you feed your lake the blues will eat the feed as well as the brem.

I have never stocked a crappie in any pond or lake and would not recommend stocking them.

I have worked on several lakes in the 100 acre size class and still dont see very healthy populations of crappie. They spawn earlier in the year than bass which gives crappie fry an advantage over bass fry. When baby bass hatch out (about a month later) crappie fry are large enough to eat bass fry. If crappie put off a good spawn it is possible that most of the bass fry in the pond will be eaten before they reach one inch in total length. Even if bass survive to one inch they have to avoid the adult crappie. I have seen ponds and small lakes that are almost void of bass due to crappie.

for those of you with ponds that already contain crappie. Keep them if you catch them. the crappie and bass seem to do better if crappie are harvested heavily.

Shan

Don't take it so verbatim. I'm only trying to stir some discussion and debate by looking at pond management from the opposite side of fish to stock. Everybody has their own reasons for wanting or not wanting certain species in a pond. I'm simply posting my opinion based on what I want and have read. I'm not so much interested in hearing a defense of certain fish, but rather reasons why you don't want certain species in a pond.

On blues and flatheads: From what I've read these fish can do serious damage to fish populations in small ponds. Exceptions, sure...if you want these cats and do things such as feeding or extreme stocking variations. Would I like to have some of these bad boys in the pond I'm taking care of? You bet, I love fishing for monster cats. In fact, this pond has two blues and a flathead that the previous owner threw in about six years ago. Saw one of the blues and it was HUGE. However, in a typical "bass/bluegill" pond with no special management you are heading for trouble. I opt for channels, which can still grow to monster size and co-exists well in a typical bass pond, and will try to fish out the flathead and pair of blues this summer.

Same situation applies to crappie and perch, on which I take the opposite side of the fence. Many people say never to stock them in a small pond or you'll have stunting problems. However, I plan to try to keep them under control with heavy harvesting if they show signs of needing it. This pond had both of these fish for twenty years before I got to it. Very few and mostly large, so I stocked more.

Pumpkinseeds: I haven't read much positive information on stocking them. If snail control is desired you'd be much better off with shellcrackers that grow larger and don't pose an overpopulating problem.

Bullheads: Another example of where you can part ways. They're good eating and easy to catch, which is good enough for some. They also have a much easier time breeding in ponds, which often leads to problems. However, I'm a channel cat fisherman and bullheads are worse than bluegill at bait stealing to me. I've seen a few of my favorite channel cat lakes ruined by stunted bullheads to the point where I gave up fishing them.

Hybrids: Some swear by them but I tend to side with those who play down the growth rate of these fish compared to bluegill, and see no need to risk introducing green sunfish to a pond for what might be a faster growth rate.

Pike: I'm aware of this fish being used in low numbers to thin out stunted bass. Even considered using 2 or 3 per acre to reduce bass numbers. Still, I'd prefer methods that I can personaly control...such as removing bass myself and additional forage stockings.

Fathead Minnows: Conventional wisdom says you are wasting your money stocking them in an established pond. However, I know of a few small ponds that these minnows are prospering in and have been for years, despite the crappie and bass pressure. So, I threw 3200 in the pond and am hoping for the best. It's worth a try, anyway.

Again, be interested in you're presonal reasons for never stocking a specific fish, along with viable options you've substituted for them.

Many different opinions. Nobody is really wrong, it depends on what your goals and preferences are. Some like cats, but personally I would not want them in my pond. Some don't like Crappie but I do and have them in my 6.19 acre Southern Michigan pond.

The pond is 11 years old and was never really stocked. The Bluegills just appeared from somewhere. After several years approximately 75 to 100 Bass were transplanted from a number of other locations. Approx. 25 to 30 Crappie from another pond were put in a couple years after the Bass. The only fish that were actually "stocked" were 150 6 to 8 inch Wallyeye in October of 1997.
Very few people fish the pond but all Crappie are catch and filet, all Bluegill under 9 inches are kept, all Bass under 14 inches are kept and all Wallyeye are released.

This past winter we pulled 3 Crappie over 17 inches thru the ice. The Walleye are all over 24 inches and the Bass are up to 8 1/2 pounds.
The guys in the South have different types of fish to chose from as do we in the North and everybody has different goals so I don't think you can really say "never" as far as fish stocking goes.

There are several "nevers" that do hold true for almost everybody with a pond......such as never let Comerants get established on your pond, never let Muskrats dig into your dam, never let a leaky dam go unattended. (Potsy--never let Beavers.....)

Dan

I think we all tend to agree that Blues and Flatheads can be ravenous eaters, and can clean out a pond if you let them.....But I just had a thought Why not use Crappie that every body wants as the forage, and let the Blues be the predetor to forage down the crappie?? Kinda like the average Bass Bluegill ponds. Think about it, big cats like Blues or Flatheads will not spawn and reproduce in small lake and ponds, so you know the number predetor fish you have. With the crappie being so prolific in their reproduction, their great numbers could be offset by the feeding of the big catfish. Seems like it would work to me...You would have a pond balenced with Black Crappie, and Big Catfish.
Now of course I don't how the bream and Bass would handle being in their at the same time.

What do you think? Could this work??

If I had a fish I never stock it would be the channel cat. Not because I don't like them or anything, it just that I rather have blues, and would not waste pond resources on both species. If there were absolutely no way to get blues then I would stock them.

Can you guys explain how you are able to bold some words?. I can't figure it out. Not very computer literate. Thanks

Dan- Don't think I missed that comment about Beavers.
Good news is I have had no sign of them for 5 months.... pesky buggers.

Bill- To make an item bold use the Instant UBB Code for BOLD that is listed beside the Instant Graemlins when you are writing your entry or reply and enter the text you want bold in the pop-up window that comes up. You can do the same thing with quotes. Unless of course you have UBB code disabled but I believe it is enabled for all on this board....

More on UBB Code: UBB Code

Pottsy- just checking on how you and your flat tailed friends made it thru the winter. This year was a very long and cold one down here.
Dan

Here's my list:

Piranha - Nibble on your toes when your wading!

Bowfin - Love to destroy your favorite Bass Plugs!

Walking Catfish - Might walk to my pond!

Snakehead Fish - Just plain ugly and mean!

I like Bob K's list.

Dan beat me to my answer. It is all about goals. I was laughing when reading the first post knowing the Never comment would stir the pot.

My quick 2 cents:

crappie- normally not suggested but have clients that control them woth harvest and have slab crappie in small ponds

hybrid striped bass- have done great in small ponds with supplemental feeding

flatheads-no unless you know understand what your getting into

common carp- muddy a pond everytime in my experince

hybrid bream- only suggest when willing to drain in a couple of years and never when managing for bass

fathead minnows- only in new pond before sotcking bass

Good topic!

Pumkinseeds are the northern biological equivilant to red ear sunfish in the south. They fill the same roll in the enviroment. If you can see a roll for red ears in the south, then you can understand our use of pumkinseeds in the north. Red ears just can't take cold winters.

I was always told no crappie, I then went to an old guy who runs a fishery told him I wanted bass and they were my major goal. This guy is like 80 something has been doing it for years. He asked me if I wanted crappie I said absolutely not He grinned and said you have been doing a lot of reading on this haven't you. I said yea he told me that most are full of it and he always has people stock crappie with bass. I told him I didnt agree and he went on to basically tell me I was crazy and shouldnt believe everything I read he has been doing this for 60 + years and I should do whatever I wanted but he would give them to me free If I wantd to try them so I did.Its a small pond I will have to see if he was right or every article and thing I have ever heared? I went with experience hopefully it will pay off. Though I dont fish for crappie as a rule maybe they will be good fried up. Oh P.S. I aslo had to buy a 4.00 bullfrog because my kid wanted it. Still croakes every night, till the cold hit.

I am very familar with Fender's (the old guy's) fish stocking philosophies. Some of them are good, & some are designed sell more fish in the future. Go Back to Fender's and ask him if they will come and seine crappie out when they overpopulate. Crappie are a chancey or risky fish to stock in small ponds. Your bass growth will be suppressed with crappie in the pond. Dennis does not consider how many bass you will have and how big your bass are going to get. He will be interested in selling you additional forage fish to keep all the predators growing properly in your small pond. Your bass will not grow optimally with crappie in the pond. If you keep a close watch on the numbers and balance within the pond blk crappie can work. But you would be able to grow more and bigger bass if crappie were not in there. Each medium-lg crappie will take the place of one 12" -13" bass.

When your pond gets out of balance fish wise, his only advice will be to buy more fish.