Pond Boss Forums STOCKING A NEW POND Types of fish to choose Mike Robinson I have to politely disagree with you on the redears

You indicated that you are too far north for good redear survival. I have the fastest growing redears in my state of Indiana in some of the natural lakes in my part of northeast Indiana (about as far north as you in Illinois) according to local biologists. In fact, their range is slightly north into southern Michigan. I take in plenty of 11 plus inch redears from these lakes (as a taxidermist,) and I just took in a 13.5 inch 1.73 lb redear from Coldwater Lake in Michigan near a town called by the same name.

They are not as active under the ice as bluegill but they are fairly common in some of our lakes.

Cecil,

You are right that it is possible to grow good redears this far north, but they also die during the winter in many northern ponds. Sometimes I make blanket statements when I should instead take the time to explain the situation thoroughly, but I'd rather be safe than sorry. Redears will make it through the winter if you have a strong flow of spring water or well water into the pond, deep ponds or larger bodies of water that can sustain warmer winter water temperatures, but in relatively shallow static ponds up hear during a winter like this, they are toast.

Mike,

You may have a point there with the redears in ponds not doing well verses deeper natural lakes up here. You obviously have much more experience and expertise in fish than I do.

In my warwater pond I took a temp profile and it is cooler than a natural lake even though I do not mix the water column and only use a diffuser in shallower water off to the side.

Here is a profile of temps the other day taken through the with a calibrated YSI-550 oxygen. temp instrument:

3 inches - 32.5 F.
1 foot - 34.1
2 feet - 35.3
3 feet - 35.7
4 feet - 35.7
5 feet - 35.8
6 feet - 35.9
7 feet - 36.5
8 feet - 37.1
9 feet - 37.2

I do believe deeper natural lakes in my area will typically have some water up to about 39 degrees on the bottom, and maybe the few degrees difference makes a difference on stress levels. That would explain why my largemouths may be stressed (the red teeth) in winter.

However, I do know that redears have been found in at least one natural lake in northern Indiana (Lake Maxinkuckee) since the turn of the 20th century according to an old biological survey book I have. If they are native they are at the northernmost tip of their range or someone planted them. I'm wondering if it is possible that these redears in the natural lakes now may be hardier in cold temps due to natural selection.

I don't know if that is the case, but if I was going to stock redears in the north, I'd rather have a northern brood stock. That is the case with other fish, like Largemouth Bass. You'd never want to stock Florida strains in the north, even though they are the same species. I even think that it is a bad idea to stock southern bluegill & hybrid bluegill in the north.

In Illinois, I believe that there is only 1 NATURAL historic account of redear in the northern half of the state. Zero in Wisconsin.

I know a fisherman that goes to small natural lakes in NE Indiana and catches quite a few big redears off the spawning beds during spawning season. I do not agree with this technique but he does it anyway.

D.Fender's Fish Hatchery has been raising redears in his central Ohio ponds for many years. He sells quite a few homegrown (drainable ponds/sm lakes) 9"+ redears each fall. I definately think there is a northern clinal gradation of redears that can tolerate a typical northern OH - IN winter. However I have never caught one ice fishing. I think they are too busy shivering to bite. Thus it appears they are not truly adapted to northern winters.

I have caught pumpkinseed sunfish ice fishing. They are the northern counterpart of the redear sunfish. Active gastropod(snail)eaters. They just don't get as big as redears and max out at abt 9"-9.5".

Bill,

I know a lake in Massachusetts that had them very close to 10 inches. Beautiful fish! If I ever put in that pond just for male feed trained bluegills I thought of putting in male feed trained pumpkinseeds too. I was hoping if they were fed they may bump up a little in size compared to their wild counterparts. But I had a Minnesota farmer tell me probably not.

Cecil - Not sure I agree with him. How frequent were those 10" fish? One in how many? Do we need to pay it a visit?

You can (at least I can) sex them (pseeds) with pretty good confidence. They will pellet train; did it to a cage full. Male only types on feed would be interesting fun. There is a 'secluded' pond very near me with pumpkinseeds & LMB. Wonder how that happened? This summer I may pay it a visit when I am collecting my male bgill. Thanks for the hint & reminder.

Did you know if you cut off the colored (red)part of the opercle flap they will willingly hybridize with bgill?.

Bill,

Lots of lakes with pumpkinseeds out there, but this one had the biggest. I've taken in some big ones from Canada too (as a taxidermist). If you want to go some time I'm game. I usually go for a week in June.

You won't believe the bluegill fishing out there. Everyone thinks they're trash fish. I typically go about the middle to late June when they are on the beds. It's best to watch the weather as to when they will bed as some years it stays cold longer and other years it warms up a little early.

It's a good drive but I usually camp out in a large tent in New York on the way and there. Stay about a week and have stayed as long as two weeks.

I think it might be worth it to get some broodstock, but although these pumpkinseeds are all close to 10 inches I'm not sure how many we could get. Maybe not more than a few dozen.

Interesting about the red ear tab removed. It makes sense.

Bill,

No, these are all public access lakes although the one with the biggest pumpkinseeds has a sneaky trick to keep out people that aren't locals. It's a public access but no public parking except what is owned by the resident beach. I was able charm someone and didn't have any problems.

One good thing though. They had a big big sign at the boat ramp that said, "No jet skis allowed!" I didn't have a problem with that!

I know this is an old thread, but what are you guys talking about? I lived in Portage Lakes OH for 24 years, and that is in very cold, northern OH, and they are crawling with large healthy redear. Ponds in the area also have redear. Redear can definitely, without any doubt at all, live in cold climates. As far as them being too cold and "shivering" to bite under ice, I also disagree. I have caught many of various sizes through the ice. I fished next to a guy who caught a 13 incher through the ice at Old Portage Lakes State Park in 2002. The water there is only 8 foot or less deep throughout the entire bay, and the ice was 8 inches thick.

Do not fear the redear, it will live and thrive, although I agree that it is probably a good idea to use a northern strain.

Hope I'm not stepping on anyones toes, but I wrote the facts as I have personally experienced them.

(by the way I now live in SE tuscarawas county and stock 3.5" redear last spring that are now 9")

Cecil, are you familiar with Snow lake in stueben county? It has a good redear population and I have a mounted 2 1/4 lb redear that came from there a few years back. I am trying them in my pond right now. I hope to have some luck with atleast decent growth. If you have any suggestions let me know for you are just a stones throw down the road from me. I guess one question is how to get them safely through the winter?

Sure am. I've mounted some redears from Snow and it has some big crappies too. One of my taxidermy pick up drop off points is on Big Otter near there. Tri-state.

I'm holding off on redears. My perch seem to do a good job of eating the snails, and I don't want to take the change of the redears interbreeding with the bluegills. I want only purebreed bluegills.