Pond Boss Forums MANAGING AN EXISTING POND Evaluating and adjusting fish populations Bluegill variation

How about a thread on BG/CNBG variation. Here is a start. Look at the ear tab length on this BG about 6in long. No other BG from this pond in my memory had such a long ear tab.







Other BG











Add a few pics showing variation.

Look at the red eye on Lusk's bluegill!



...and look at the giant ear tab on this pretty male--also from Lusk's great ponds.



But a much smaller ear tab on a similarly sized bluegill, but faster growing and younger male, caught at my farm.



All three of these are standard BG, not CNBG.

http://www.lakework.com/photo_gallery/gallery2/v/fish_species/Sunfish/
This should show you a few more versions.

[img] http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a380/texoma/CNBG03-10-06002copy.jpg[/img] [img]

Greg those are some good pics. !!!

A great group of posts. I love the pictures guys.

Next saturday (week from today) I am getting my 20 F-1's 1 lb+ and 75 CNBG 6"+.

With proper feeding how large do you think the CNBG's should get by this time next year, and what expectations should I have for their offsprings size?

I will be feeding by hand and Todd Overton said I should feed until January. I assume I should start back up sometime in February? Most years here we get the first nice early spring days around the middle of February.

I will be hand feeding. And probably will only be able to do it once a day, somedays I may have to skip. When I do should have put out extra feed when I resume and give them more time to eat it?

Also I have really large cc. A lot of smaller fish feed with them now but I wonder if it just the real small ones and FHM's that to stupid to know otherwise. Should I feed at two different locations? I have a place with real thick brush that make it harder for the very large cc to get into. Think I could get the CNBG to feed at that place. Another thought is I want to feed the CNBG a more expensive higher protien food than the cc. Or do you think the cc won't scare away 6'+ CNBG's and just feed in one spot all the same thing? If I feed the BG with the cc should I feed longer than 15 mins to give the smaller fish a chance to eat a little longer? Is 15 mins about the right time to clean up the food in the first place?

One last question. Last weekend I spread out about 40 gallons of pea gravel for BG and bass spawning beds. I was so proud of myself until I came in and was looking at a post of Theo's showing all the beds he had laid out. Then I thought, man I need to do better than I have, but still won't be close to Theo. I have some pea gravel left but I went out and got some limestone gravel. I thought that since my water tends to be acid having some limestone in it would be a good idea. But then I got to thinking limestone is the only rock that will fizz when you put vinegar on it. It won't hurt eggs or be something the fish won't nest in will it? This gravel is a little coarser than pea gravel. How large can the crevious' be or the roughness of the rocks be before fish can won't use it. I could always use it as the base and put in some sand or pea gravel on top to smooth it out. I'm going to try and post some pictures today or tomorrow of my pond and other stuff. Just hope someday I will be able to post pictures of some BG like the ones in this post.

And Theo thanks for before the water posts, it was helpful to see examples and an inspiration to do better. I don't know if I need that much protective gear, but I know how it goes. I have a john boat and I use it most for a barge to carry things with in the pond, i.e. cement block to tie to logs and brush I sink and lime, fertilizer. Sometimes I even fish out of it but mostly work, lol. Oh baby grandkid rides too.

I appreciation any comments or suggestions offered.

Bill, if 6+" BG were being stocked up here into a pond empty of BG, I would expect them to reach 8" or so in a year. With the longer growing season in TX, you might get some monsters big enough to give george's a run for their money.

If the pond is full of BG already (I can't remember your situation), I'd expect 1" of growth up here, more in TX.

WRT maximizing BG feeding with once-a-day (most days) hand feeding - my advice is let the CNBG tell you how to feed them best. This will mean trying different feeding locations, different sized areas to place the feed in, and different amounts until you find what seems to have the most feed go into the CNBG without waste (pellets which float to the edge of the pond uneaten are at best lost $ and at worst a source of water quality problems.

In my pond, I have BG, CC, LMB, and GC (plus a few feed trained RES) all eating pellets when I hand feed once a day. To maximize BG feeding I spread about 3 lbs (for just under an acre) out along maybe 80 yards of shore, from just off shore to as far into the pond as I can throw. Since the smaller BG greatly outnumber the big CC, LMB, and GC, spreading the feed out lets more BG have a chance to eat away from the relatively small portion of the feed area the big fish dominate. This approach seems to be most efficient for me, but I had to play around some to come up with it.

Don't worry about catching up after days you miss. Lusk (and many others) recommend feeding only 4-6 days per week. Do a search for "compensatory feeding" and read why not feeding every day can be a benefit.

You may also find that fishing is better on the day after the fish don't get fed. I do, and enjoy the added action (since I only get to fish about one day a week this year, I usually do it the day after I don't feed).

WRT prepared spawning areas, remember I am currently trying to prepare for fairly finicky SMB spawners. BG and LMB are much more tolerant in choice of spawning substrates, and are usually very successful on plain mud bottoms. Mine spawn AOK in my main pond with NO prepared beds. I imagine yours will appreciate the pea gravel, however.

Back to BG variations. Caught these three nice BG this afternoon - all about 8 1/2", same pond, same genetics. #1 is colored like what my big bull males look like. I am pretty sure #2 is male, but he looks less mature to me. I had thought #3 looked like an immature male when I caught it, but the more I look at the picture the more I sure am it is probably a female. Good argument for not making snap judgments when sexing BG.

Thanks for the reply Theo, and nice pictures. How can you tell the difference between male and female?

Have about an acre pond with big catfish. With lots of little GSF, BG, or mix, I don't know. But I posted a picture of a few of them today for forum members to look at and give their opinion along with some general pictures of my pond. I also have some very large bigger than my hand, thick bodies, with very pretty orange on the underside turquoise around the head. They are rarely caught. They may be some of the original HBG I stocked several years ago. I also have some but not many BG from 4 to maybe 6" (I have bought a carpenters rule and will start keeping better records and measurements). I stocked a few bass when the pond was built many years ago but I think ducks got them all. I have never seen any since that first sping and I was totally out of FHM's too. I restocked the minnows but was afraid to stock small bass because the catfish would eat them and kind of thought there were surely a few and they would make babies. That was the first three years, then came three years where our average rain fall was getting to be like west Texas. I had several 60' 70' oaks die, even last year a huge one lost its leaves in Aug. but luckly it came back this year.

What you said on feeding makes sense. I think sometimes I need reassurance. As far as the beds, I have few flat areas and using the gravel helps me level places out, and it's and excuse for playing in the mud. At 55 one has to have some excuse for rolling in mud, lol. It is an inside area close to bushes and weeds that flood when the pond is full, which it usually will be during breeding season. It is about 3 feet down now, but for this area that is to be expected or worse. Better than 8 or 9 like he last three years, not much pond left then. I let some of the brush stick up for birds, dragon and damsel flies it goes to the bottom from a few feet to about ten, but in those outside areas it is mostly 4 to 6 feet under water even at 3 feet down. In one of the pictures I posted I am in the water and my daughter is in the boat handing me coffee cans of pea gravel after I measure the depth, pour it in and level it out.

I hope you are right about getting BG like you and George. He has a much larger pond, but Plano is only about 60 miles west of me.

Is your new pond starting to fill?

Again thanks for the advice and pictures. BTW were you in a past life a Roman Emperor or some important senator. Theodorous? Gallus stikes a bell deep in my tired old brain, but I can't place it.

Bill, "our" ponds are north of you in Delta County so not too far away. If you are geting your CNBG from Overton's they are the best Florida genetics around.
If I can help in any way give me a holler.

Good Morning George:

Do you live in Plano and have your ponds in Delta County? That would be closer to me than Plano. How far from from Sulphur Springs are you, or are you between Cooper and Commerce. I'm 20 miles due south of Sulphur Springs off 19. In I am closer than Emory, you get off 19 on a FmRd before Emory to get to my place.

Just give me advise now and then. If you ever go to your ponds you might invite me to take a walk through of them. I'd love to see them in person.

Thanks for the post and have a nice Sunday.

Bill

These are from the same pond.

PS George, next Saturday is the day I have been waiting on. Be getting my 20 F-1 1 lb+ and 75 CNGB 6"+ from Overton's.

I'll post pictures of their release.

Bill here are the pics from the PB mag article by , Bill Cody , Bruce Condello and Cecil Baird.

Thanks Ewest. I'll try and study this.

Hi Bill, I speak of "our" ponds but they belong to my son jeff.
I am the "sharecropper" and pondmeister.
His place is about 20 miles north of Sulphur Springs off hwy 19.

I want to state once again that I have no business connection with Overton Fisheries, but a good friend of Tood and satisfied customer.

I believe that I am going to stop refering to his CNBG as Florida Species and refer to them as Overton species.
He has selected from various sources that I assume are "trade secret" and selects the most desireable traits, "highgrading" and carefully selecting brood stock, and grows them out by overwintering indoors, and into growout poonds until adult size.

I even have conributed CNBG brood stock but don't have a clue as to whether used or rejected...

We'll have to get together sometime.
George

Todd has been very nice to me and answered a lot of questions. And I have heard a lot of good things about him. What you said helps reassure me some that I am buying a good strain, from a good person but I have had the order in for almost a month. I first talked to Todd over a year ago, but the water situation was still pretty bad and waited to this year to restock. In fact I found out about this forum and the magazine while on Overton's site placing the order.

Sounds like your son's place is about where one turns off 19 to go to Cooper.

Again thanks and best wishes for a great Sunday for you,

Bill

1) In addition to the info ewest already gave, here's a thread discussing male BG maturity that has a lot of good info. Also these back issues of PBMag have excellent articles on managing BG and BG sex lives: July-Aug 2005 (Dr. Dave Willis expose on BG's secret lives) and Mar-Apr, May-June, and July-Aug 2006 (Cody-Condello-Baird 3-parter on managing for big male BG).

2. Only a foot/foot-and-a-half of water in the new pond so far. Which is good; it has let me get all the heavy work done down in the basin with a tractor. It can start raining anytime now and the worst I will get is muddy. I hope we get some gradual rains to help the grass around the pond get going well without any erosion.

3. Can't help you out there. I drank WAY too much when I was a Baron in Alsace in the mid-1500's, and as a result I can barely remember any of my past lives prior to that time. As far as the family name, consider that our coat of arms shows a pair of pants falling down on a field sable. Don't listen to any of Condello's talk about chickens - that's "Gallus gallus".

Eric, I don't think we have an archive thread on sexing BG. Hint.

Man, Theo! You're really getting it. Those are three great fish. That last one in particular is a great fish regardless of whether it's male or female (I hope it's a male) :). Those look like excellent body conditions. You're about a year away from having fish that I'd consider trophies. Did you get a weight? I'd be interested in your Wr's. Must be pretty high from what I can see.

No weights, Bruce. My small fish digital kitchen scale is in the basement, where I was weighing RES a lot last Spring. I think I'll take it out to the oar house for the rest of the warm weather this year and hope I catch some more of these nice BG to get some weights.