Pond Boss Forums POND CONSTRUCTION Creating habitat Habitat in existing pond

Okay, I've asked a few questions before on the site asking about ways to put a pond on a poor site and decided that it would be easier to just go ahead and buy a place that already was setup with a pond so I did!

Now, a few questions on improving it for the best fishing. Currently the area is in a drought and the pond is almost dried up. It supposedly has a natural spring at the bottom of the basin and that seems believable because most of the ponds in the area completely dried up but this one still has water in it.

Here is a picture that I just took on Wednesday when I was looking at the property:



It looks like there isn't any structure in the pond for the fish to me. I'm not sure what I can put in there that won't cause problems with cattle using the pond to drink as well.

The spillway is to the left of the picture and the pond would end up about 20 feet deep when it is full and back up quite a way up the creek bed.

Here is a picture of the pond taken by the seller back in the summer:



Per the seller the pond was stocked with catfish and bass and he was catching 5lb bass out of it. Of course he said that because the pond is so low the bass are probably gone but there might be catfish left. I didn't do anything to check it out and not sure how deep it is now.

I'm wide open to any suggestions or comments.

Thanks, Nathan

It looks to me like you just need some rain. The creek is good 'structure' as is the buried rocks on the far side. You may put a few things in the creek bed.

Nathan, got any cedar trees? If not, come to Bowie. I can fix you up.

I see what looks like a big rock that can be added to. You can use the mesquite but it doesn't provide much cover for fingerlings.

I wouldn't worry about structure giving cows a problem. That is, unless you put a bunch of fresh, green oak trees in. That'll kill fish lickety split and the cows won't drink it.

If you have concerns about any type of wood, cut a chunk, put it in a bucket of the pond water, let it sit for about a week and toss in some minnows. If they get no ill effects, no problem.

Nathan,

Good to see you here!!!

Does this mean that you're selling the place that you put in food plots and wildlife pond?

Eddie

No, I'm not selling anything. I have a little over 40 acres that my house is on and will keep that. This place is a 1/4 section that I'm buying as an "investment" (that's how I got it past the wife ) and will use it to hunt on and hopefully fish on. We have a new little boy who is 1 month old and my long range forecast is for him to be able to enjoy spending time on it.

The place is 101 miles from my house and takes right at 1 1/2 hours door to door.

As soon as it closes I was planning on getting my tractor down there and moving some more rocks and stuff down around the edges of the pond if it is still dry then. Reading through old posts on this forum I'm thinking more along the lines of moving rocks and other natural type structure around the pond rather than the fancy PVC stuff because I think the water level will flucuate quite a bit from year to year and I don't want a bunch of ugly stuff sticking up out of the water.

Thanks for the replies. One other thing I may end up having to work on is the spillway. Right now it looks like once the pond gets filled up a really heavy rain could do some damage on the spillway and I'm thinking about adding some rip rap onto the spillway to keep the erosion down if that happens.

Nathan

hi nathan, a question thats buggin me is do you have evidence from seller or agent that this pond actually once held water at full pool? as you might have read here on other threads, springs in the bottom of a pond can be a detriment to the ability of said pond to hold water. not tryin to be a killjoy, just curious.

They represented that the pond has been full and that it held water well. I hadn't thought about the possibility of having a spring in the bottom of the pond could affect it's ability to hold water but now that you mention it, that does make sense. I guess we will see for sure after some good rains. I'll take some measurements and see how well it holds.

Here is an email response that I got from the seller:

My question:

On the pond, has it ever been completely full? I was doing some research and one person mentioned that a spring at the bottom of a pond could cause the pond to drain quicker than if there was not a spring. I was looking at rainfall totals for Snyder and a couple years ago they had a very wet year and I was wondering if the pond filled up that year and how fast it lowered back down.

I would be interested in anything else he could tell me about the land as well. What fish did he stock in the pond, where did he buy them, etc. Any other items of interest that he can think of would be great.

His response:

The pond filled up and overflowed about three times right after I built the dam, and the spillway was washing out. The pond was going dry quickly, and in Oct. 1998 we put down the sodium bentonite (sp?) and duq the basin deeper into the clay bed. That is when we hit the spring. It has not been dry since that time, however, during the dry weather I think the spring dried up, and it got very low last May before we got a good rain. There has been no runoff water since then. Yes, Snyder was getting flooded, but it wasn't happening in Fisher County. I don't know where he got the information about a spring contributing to drying up, but, I am sure the spring is the only reason it did not go completely dry.

When we lined the spillway with the boulders we also lowered it about 18" to prevent it backing up on my neighbor's field. It has only been to spillway level one time since then.

It was stocked in late 1998 or early 1999 with Channel Cat, Bass, Black Crappie and Blue Gill. We have caught 3-5 pound Bass and Catfish along with a few Crappie, but I don't know if any except the Catfish survived the low water and Coons.

When I get back to Plainview, which may now be about the middle of February, I will send him the name and address where I bought the fish. Also, I will mail him a picture of the "lake" when it was full. When we close I will let him have the abstract and some maps of the place if he wants them.

Nathan - Another thought is to check some of the on-line sources of aerial photos. You may be able to find some that aren't so current and may help to confirm a "full" pond at some point in time. You may also be able to check at your county for past aerial photos. I have some for my place at various points in time....'68....'73......'85......'9?....etc. Aerials are always nice to use prior to a purchase to verify any potential deal breakers with past or present land use on the subject or neighboring parcels. I'd hope there is no seller misrepresentation but you never know. Chuck

nathan, the thing about springs in the bottom of a pond is that yes, they could maintain some amount of water in the bottom depending on the flow rate of the spring, but keep in mind that once the pond water reaches a certain depth (or height above the spring) the pressure of the pond water (against the spring entrance) can exceed the pressure of the spring (coming up in the pond) and cause reverse flow back through the spring and into the ground. this in turn (in the absence of rain) makes the pond water level drop (usually pretty fast) to the level at which the pond water pressure equals the spring pressure.....which is typcially really low.

a lot of people here when they find a spring (or water table water) in the bottom of a pond, they pack it off and seal it with clay and hope it doesnt leak.

since it sounds like you have good clay soils around the pond basin, it appears it wouldnt take too much to bulldoze that stuff around, pack off the spring, and essentially "renovate" at least the deepest area of the pond. maybe there could be an allowance in the purchase price for this?

Thanks for the replies. I have checked google and mapquest and they are of different times, but neither show the pond full.

Here is the google link:
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=...5332&iwloc=addr

The pond looks to be about 100 feet in diameter in that picture.

The dam was built in 1995 and renovated in 1998 so I doubt there are very many older pics of it. In Mapquest it doesn't quite get to the same detail of Google but the pond looks to be about the same 100' diameter so more than likely that is where it settles in with the pond pressure equaling the spring pressure.

I personally think if I spend money on this it would probably be better to just bite the bullet and leave that pond as is and build another dam somewhere else downstream or on the other creek.

Here is the topo map with a red dot where the current pond is. I would have more control over the run off if I put another pond on the creek on the eastern side of the land.

http://www.topozone.com/map.asp?lat=32.63636&lon=-100.56008&s=24&size=l&u=4&datum=nad27&layer=DRG

I can't decide if I should try to dicuss renovating the pond with the guy that built it originally (I have his contact information from the seller) or if I should try someone else.

Maybe I just just enjoy the pond as it is and be happy with that?

Thanks again for the responses.

Oh, one other thing that concerned me was in his reply where he talked about using sodium bentonite. That got me a little concerned about the soil. I already have a contract on the property so no adjusting the purchase price but if I can seal the pond off good without it costing an arm and a leg I would be interested.